Arthas...

[Swerto]

I was having an argument earlier, on whether or not Arthas is undead or alive. I decided that he was not undead, but not completely alive either. He had never died (so he couldn't be undead) but he isn't the young human he had once been either. Not even the soul (Whats left of it) Isn't even all Arthas anymore, now that its half Ner'zhul (or however you spell it)

[Sanrin]

Alive! Just possessed I think.

[Fynne]

Takes damage from Holy Light as his deathknight hero form in WCIII; citing game mechanics I'd go with undead.

[Anthek]

Alive, just as the necromancers and the Cult of the Damned are living servants of the Lich King.

[Swerto]

Thats what I thought, he just is... tainted

[Cedes]

well he's the lich king now. So he would be Immortal yet killable right?

[Swerto]

Sort of like the elves used to be... just with a darker side....
Well his body is still human... Thats what I'm thinking.. but his soul is half lich....

[Raziel]

He's Alive.

His Body is a vessel for the non-corporeal essence of Ner'zhul.
Ner'zhul was never a Lich. He has his spirit infused in the armor, more like a Revenant's creation. Ner'zhul is a manifestation of incredible psychic energy and necromantic power. He's no longer a "him" or an "it" but an Intelligence. His true form is beyond any comprehension.

He's not Immortal at all.

And hell, taking damage from Light-based powers means nothing. Sanrin can use his damned seals in PvP and do Light-Based damage on anything.

[Darkblade]

Also, if you remember (I saw this again recently, as I've been playing through WC3 again) when he becomes the death knight, he's still living.

[Icia]

And hell, taking damage from Light-based powers means nothing. Sanrin can use his damned seals in PvP and do Light-Based damage on anything.
Except that in Warcraft 3, Holy light specifically says that it heals friendly units and "harms undead targets". Which is what was being referred to.

I'd lean more toward undead, just that lorewise, it didn't happen the same way as the others. He didn't ever die, he more transformed, via the powers from Frostmourne and the Lich King.

[Malakim]

We all know he is still human, well at least some remnant that is Arthas that's how you are going to be able to kill him. The same way all very evil people die, some part of him that was still kind and a paladin will shine through at the end when you use some sort of relic that allows the ghost of Uther to help fight along side you and the last vestige of Arthas will hold back the darker side of the Lich King from attacking long enough for you or Uther to kill him.

So in other words, he is all dark and evil, but still has some human in him.

(PS I don't know if that's really going to happen or not, just seems like the kind of thing that would happen)

[Keraph]

We all know he is still human, well at least some remnant that is Arthas that's how you are going to be able to kill him. The same way all very evil people die, some part of him that was still kind and a paladin will shine through at the end when you use some sort of relic that allows the ghost of Uther to help fight along side you and the last vestige of Arthas will hold back the darker side of the Lich King from attacking long enough for you or Uther to kill him.

So in other words, he is all dark and evil, but still has some human in him.

(PS I don't know if that's really going to happen or not, just seems like the kind of thing that would happen)

Malakim hacked the gibson, and has seen the end of WotLK already :O

[Malakim]

Malakim hacked the gibson, and has seen the end of WotLK already :O

Hack the planet!

[Islefr]

I'd probably vote for his being undead, just because over the years of being trapped inside an armor as an Intelligence babbles insanity into your ear tends to erode both mind and body. But the thing of it is, you'd never know if he did die, because he'd be immediately reanimated by the Lich King who's controlling him.

[Swerto]

Hackers rules

[Anthek]

I'd probably vote for his being undead, just because over the years of being trapped inside an armor as an Intelligence babbles insanity into your ear tends to erode both mind and body. But the thing of it is, you'd never know if he did die, because he'd be immediately reanimated by the Lich King who's controlling him.

Game mechanics don't necessarily have an impact on the lore, though. By all accounts, Arthas's body wasn't infected by the Plague, nor did he die to be raised by a necromancer. The only thing different about him was that Frostmourne devoured his soul so that the Lich King could use him as his vessel.

[Okhu]

Did you stop to think maybe Frostmourn did more then just drain his soul?....maybe his life force too?...which would explain why he'd be undead and never seem to know it....because well...the Frostmourn was keeping him up fit as a fiddle... I mean....I'm SURE the guy had to sleep at some point....which is when the switch could have happened. Bamo "Wow I'm awake.....and yet... I feel MORE EVIL!...MUAHAH...plus..I've got this nasty pasty skin...which is kind of wierd..but none the less MUAHAHAHAHA!!"

[Raziel]

We all know he is still human, well at least some remnant that is Arthas that's how you are going to be able to kill him. The same way all very evil people die, some part of him that was still kind and a paladin will shine through at the end when you use some sort of relic that allows the ghost of Uther to help fight along side you and the last vestige of Arthas will hold back the darker side of the Lich King from attacking long enough for you or Uther to kill him.

So in other words, he is all dark and evil, but still has some human in him.

(PS I don't know if that's really going to happen or not, just seems like the kind of thing that would happen)



He's a lvl 80 Raid Boss.
There's your fuckin' game mechanics.

[Keraph]

Hack the planet!

I love you hard for catching that

[Darkblade]

Let me re-emphasize this. In WC3, when he's the fledgling death knight, he's still human (not undead).

Now, that doesn't mean that Blizzard won't go back and change something (read also: Eradar)...

[Icia]

Let me re-emphasize this. In WC3, when he's the fledgling death knight, he's still human (not undead).But it's pretty obvious that in WC3, he's treated as undead. (abilities affect him as they would undead) I'm willing to say that he's human, with undead "energies" empowering him. As far as any game mechanics are concerned, he should be treated as undead, even if he's technically still living and breathing.

[Darkblade]

Game mechanics are dumb though. Those are the things that make it so nobody can communicate cross-faction (even though they do it ALL THE TIME in the Warcraft RTS games) and that make Forsaken sort of like badly diseased humans instead of being undead (because alliance paladins would be totally OP like in the beta).

[Malakim]

Game mechanics are dumb though. Those are the things that make it so nobody can communicate cross-faction (even though they do it ALL THE TIME in the Warcraft RTS games) and that make Forsaken sort of like badly diseased humans instead of being undead (because alliance paladins would be totally OP like in the beta).

Actually it was more to keep Forsaken from being ungodly overpowered.

Being undead they were immune to fear, bleeding, poison, polymorph, sap... any CC that requires humanoid. Essentially alliance pallys just had a slight advantage when fighting a forsaken whereas they always had an advantage over like everything else. I would so take the trade off.

[Icia]

Game mechanics are dumb though. Those are the things that make it so nobody can communicate cross-faction (even though they do it ALL THE TIME in the Warcraft RTS games) and that make Forsaken sort of like badly diseased humans instead of being undead (because alliance paladins would be totally OP like in the beta).Balance issues notwithstanding, game mechanics are still a huge factor in the lore. I'm not sure the reason the original poster asked, but I think it's safe to say that with how Frostmourne kind of ate his soul, it would make sense that Arthas is now closer to undead than properly living human. I wouldn't say he's undead like the victims of the plague are, but a lot of the things that affect undead have to affect him similarly.

[Ryoku]

Game mechanics are dumb though. Those are the things that make it so nobody can communicate cross-faction (even though they do it ALL THE TIME in the Warcraft RTS games) and that make Forsaken sort of like badly diseased humans instead of being undead (because alliance paladins would be totally OP like in the beta).

I never understood the reasoning behind us not being able to communicate cross-faction.

I mean, yeah I agree that factions shouldn't be able to whisper to eachother... But why the language barrier?

I think blizzard should have made all factions be able to communicate with eachother, but that they can also have their own languages so they can communicate with only horde, or only their race... Of course, whispers can do that too.

Aside from that: Arthas is still alive... Or... He was 'alive'.

WC3 Deathknight Arthas was alive, and completely mortal. There are several in game cinematics where the characters bring up that fact. I'm not going to say them all.

But, I believe that Arthas has become something more, like what Raizel said.

He is combined with Ner'Zhul, and is now an immortal.

Oh, and game mechanics really do mean nothing. They were just a way to balance things for WC3 (because, really... A majority of people play games for gameplay... Not lore).

[Icia]

I never understood the reasoning behind us not being able to communicate cross-faction.

I mean, yeah I agree that factions shouldn't be able to whisper to eachother... But why the language barrier?Look through the first 5 pages of the realm forum, and then imagine that going on in game, all the time.

Because that's what it would be like. I prefer it this way, regardless of lore.


Oh, and game mechanics really do mean nothing. They were just a way to balance things for WC3 (because, really... A majority of people play games for gameplay... Not lore).The issues are when the balancing mechanics conflict with lore, that's all. Things like the spirit healer, Forsaken being humanoid, or no flying mounts in Azeroth.

The rest of the game mechanics are very important, such as the way things affect different types of targets, what each spell does, etc. The lore is sometimes based around the game mechanics (Like the Draenei... at all), and the game mechanics are sometimes based around the lore (Like paladins being strong against undead targets).

You can't ignore it completely.

[Ryoku]

I can,

and I will!

/ignoresitcompletely

TAKE THAT. HAHA.

J/k.

Oh, and I see your point on languages, Icia, but I was just talking about in /say.

I still think all other forms of chat should be separated between the Alliance and horde, or else we will have a giant flame-fest.

[Jeedup]

I've seen videos of poeple playing on private servers that disabled the language barriers.

Honestly, I've never seen the f-bomb dropped so many times in a sentance.

[Ryoku]

Is it possible to show these? Or did you find them forevers ago, and just forget about them?

I'm sorry for being nosey, but I've always thought the language barrier was dumb, and I'd like some solid proof to sort-of give myself proof that it really is necessary. =p

If you don't know where they are, then that's okay. I'm just asking as a favor.

[Raziel]

The communication falter serves to allow both sides to hate each other *more*

It is a distinct human factor that it is easier to dehumanize/demonize your foe if you can't understand them.

This allows peoplt to be more sociopathic to each other and care nothing for the opposite faction. It prohibits any kind of understanding/cooperation/peace. It makes only room for hostility.

[Swerto]

Let me put this down
From being a star wars fam for MANY years and being a member of sites like wookieepedia I have had to deal with the game mechanics argument. This is how I see it, game mechanics help a game flow smoothly, allow it to play nicely, but do not always have an effect on the story. Just because he is affected by Holy magic doesn't mean he is Undead.
If that were so, we'd have to say all forsaken are cannibals because they have that ability, and as we've seen forsaken shun that sort of activiy


The communication falter serves to allow both sides to hate each other *more*

It is a distinct human factor that it is easier to dehumanize/demonize your foe if you can't understand them.

This allows peoplt to be more sociopathic to each other and care nothing for the opposite faction. It prohibits any kind of understanding/cooperation/peace. It makes only room for hostility.

Dehumization's a bitch... look at WWII

[Darkblade]

If that were so, we'd have to say all forsaken are cannibals because they have that ability, and as we've seen forsaken shun that sort of activiy

We have?

[Anthek]

We have?

The Cult of the Shadow does.

[Raziel]

I think he meant Trolls, and the opposite of what he said.

[turen]

While on the subject of Arthas, I wanna say I'm really dissapointed in that Athas will 'die' by the hands of a Raid.

Its easy to see the parallels of Arthas the Lich King and King Arthur. Frostmorne/Excalibur, even the name similarity. In a way Arthas is an anti-athur.


And how does King Arthur die? In one of the most badass deaths ever, he takes a spear to the chest, and forces it through himself so he can shove Excalibur down his enemy (Mordred, his evil son)'s throat.

What a waste that Arthas is going to get wasted by a buncha random collections of Orcs, Dwarves, Trolls, Dranei, etc in mismatched armor that looks like it came out of some dumb anime show just so WoW can peddle new content to its masses.

[Keraph]

Consider the trials and adventures we as characters have been through. We're not just Joe Orc and Sally Rottenbones off the street, who decided they were gonna go kill one of the most powerful enemies to the world. I think I'd hate it more if during the fight, some NPC like Sylvanas (cool as it would be) came in and killed him, because that would really leave no sense of accomplishment to you as the player.

[Xiphus]

Just like how Maiev killed Illidan with the final blow, so should Sylvanas be present during the death of Arthas, probably the one who gives the killing blow.

[Keraph]

I definately think she should be present (I swear to god WotLK was custom-tailored for Infection XD ) but i'm still not sure how I feel about NPCs taking the bulk of the credit for what players do. I guess if they do it well enough. I've seen the Illidan encounter, and I suppose they did pretty well with it.

As a side note, I hope they give Sylvanas a new model for WotLK. She's a high elf, dammit!

[Raziel]

If they hadn't when freaking lood Elves arrived, they certainly won't then.

That's old content. Nevermore to be touched.

[Jeedup]

They really should give all the major lore characters their own models.

I mean, its possible to get MOST of the gear for your character, and look like Thrall or Jaina, they just dont seem very unique to me.

[turen]

Consider the trials and adventures we as characters have been through. We're not just Joe Orc and Sally Rottenbones off the street, who decided they were gonna go kill one of the most powerful enemies to the world. I think I'd hate it more if during the fight, some NPC like Sylvanas (cool as it would be) came in and killed him, because that would really leave no sense of accomplishment to you as the player.

I gotta disagree there. The fact that just about EVERY player on the server is considered a 'Hero' proves this. Heroes stand out. Its hard to stand out when theres a thousand others like you running around, farming powerful dragons for sparkly weapons and armor.

[Swerto]

Meh, I'd really like it if it weren't like a normal raid... like you'd end up having to go 1 on 1 with Arthas because he'd like stop the rest of the raid group and kill you all 1 at a time. Make for a fun battle. Oh yea... and if you die during the battle you are raised as undead for the remainder of it to fight alongside Arthas.

[Keraph]

I gotta disagree there. The fact that just about EVERY player on the server is considered a 'Hero' proves this. Heroes stand out. Its hard to stand out when theres a thousand others like you running around, farming powerful dragons for sparkly weapons and armor.

That doesn't make us any less uber-powerful and accomplished. I agree that an inherent part of an MMO is to make -everyone- a hero. I mean, if they took Ragnaros out of the game after the first time he was defeated, GG endgame for anyone who wasn't in that raid. While a cool idea to cycle new content and remove it as it is completed, it's just not a realistic goal for a currently existing MMO.

As for the state of our characters, you paint Arthas as a godlike figure, who has gone through hardships, changes, fought terrible foes, travelling through lands both familiar and new, to accomplish his goals, wicked as they became. Sound familiar? We've been on similar adventures, gone through similar hardships, fought enemies of incredible power ourselves. Yeah, EVERYONE can make the same claim, and that makes our accomplishments seem smaller, but we as players theoretically only make up a small percentage of the world's population. If you think about it, we've BEEN through everything that Arthas has dealt with. He still has the awesome powers of the Lich King at his control now, but against 25 heroes of Azeroth, that have slain demons, dragons, giants, and much more, we at least have a pretty decent shot at not matching his power, but finding a way to take him out.

[Swerto]

I think this is how the battle should progress


If you are alliance things will happen simmilarly but with Jaina instead of Sylvanas


Before you ascend the frozen throne you must first make your way to the entrance of the instance and make contact with a forsaken messenger. He will instantly leave to go retreave sylvanas. He hands you an arrow that is coated with a mysterious liquid. You and your 24 fellow heroes make your way up the icecrown glacier to your ultimate goal of the frozen throne. Along the way you have to fight hoardes of undead that completely cover the staircase. And also before the top you have to fight off two frost wyrms. As you reach the top you all walk toward Arthas and he simply sits in his throne with his eyes closed. (he will be non attackable at this point.)

Arthas will begin laughing and mocking the group saying things like "You think you can defeat the One, True King!" Before he opens his eyes and stands up. As he nears the party you hear a voice behind you say "throw me that arrow!" You turn to see Sylvanas, the leader of the forsaken. You pluck the arrow from your pack and toss it in the direction of Sylvanas. She pulls back on her bow and shoots it at Arthas. The arrow strikes him and makes him roar. He rushes toward Sylvanas and strikes her once with Frostmorne. The blade cuts Sylvanas down and sends her decending down the stairs before he turns and looks at the heroes again.

Arthas simply laughs and raises his hand. 24 of the 25 people in the group simply stop moving. One person steps forward. Arthas and that person must fight 1 on 1 until they are defeated. Arthas uses your corpse to raise you once again as an undead minion and releases another person in your raid party. This will happen until Arthas has reached 50%. At this point Sylvanas has made her way up the stairs and retorts at Arthas "You think thats enough to finish me... you better think twice you son of a bitch!"

All members of the raid party are released from the stasis they have been left on and phase 2 of the battle starts. At this time you have enough time for healers to ressurect fallen party members and heal them up before Arthas begins fighting. Sylvanas will start the fight by shooting Arthas with her bow. It is the raid party's job to keep Sylvanas alive by keeping Arthas away from her or healing her (different strategies for different groups. Warriors will choose to tank him and healers will choose to heal sylvanas)

The battle will progress until Arthas reaches 25% and he roars. He will swing his sword in a circular arc and knock the entire party back to the entrance of the staircase. A giant Frostwyrm will make its way on top of the throne and Arthas will mount its back.

The dragon will rush forward and attempt to kill the party. At this point everyone begins fighting the Dragon and NOT Arthas. You need to get the dragon down to 0% before you can continue the battle against arthas. After the dragon is down Arthas will return to the battle with Frostmourne in hand. Azeroth begins to shake as if its being torn apart and the party can loook off the side to see both siege weapons from the Alliance AND Horde are assaulting the spire that holds up the frozen throne.

At this point you have 2 minutes to finish the battle before the frozen throne collapses and kills the entire party.
The battle is ended by the party stepping back and allowing Sylvanas (or in the Alliances case Jaina) to deliver the killing blow. (After the party loots the corpse the remainder of this happen) Instead of finishing him Sylvanas (or Jaina) pauses for long enough to Arthas to stand up and strike them with his blade again. The respective hero is knocked back and sent to 1% health (no matter how much they have left). Arthas turns and jumps from the throne and lands on the back of another Frostwyrm.

It flies toward the bottom of the instance and your group is forced to flee the top of the throne before icecrown collapses. The instance is now over and the party can leave. Outside the instance there is a circle of all the heroes from both the Alliance and Horde. They are circled around a dead dragon and defeated Lich King. Thrall steps forward and gives Arthas his sentence. All around the circle the leaders from both the Alliance and Horde nod in agreement. At this time Sylvanas and Jaina both limp toward the circle.

Together they nod and make their way to the center and stand before Arthas. Jaina apologizes to Arthas before she lifts up her staff. Sylvanas grabs the nearby frostmourne and strikes her sword into it shattering it. Arthas screams as blue light shoots from his eyes. (The part of his soul that is Ner'zhul is now dying). Jaina and Sylvanas both deliver the killing blow together and end the threat of the scourge once and for all.

[Keraph]

Wall of text crits you for 9001.
You die.

Learn to love the enter button, my friend.

[Swerto]

there happy?

OFF TOPIC: By the way I've been looking to find you in game. Visararath told Swerto to speak with you about a problem

[Keraph]

PM me while I'm on, we'll meet up

[Swerto]

Hey got some more Arthas questions...


I found out his story is relatively simmilar to other stories... such of that of "dun dun dun!" Anikan Skywalker/Darth Vader.

I.E.

Anikan starts as a boy who only wants to do good but has temper problems

Arthas starts off as a young man who is VERY simmilar... also whines like a bitch too...

Anikan is seduced in hopes of saving his wife, and his anger gets the best of him, therefore he turns evil for all the WRONG reasons....

Arthas is seduced in hopes of saving his people, but eventually the quest turns to that of revenge... Thus he turns evil for even more wrong reasons

Anikan is eventualy redeemed after years of being a super badass by his son Luke Skywalker... who also is a whiny bitch when he's young.

My question is this... Will Arthas be redeemed and freed from the Lich King's clutches much like Anikan was from the Emperor's? Could it be Jaina who does it right before he dies at the hands of Sylvanas? What do you guys think... do you think it will continue to follow these parralells?

[Keraph]

I think....we'll see when we get there :3

[Thoraggar]

Hey got some more Arthas questions...


I found out his story is relatively simmilar to other stories... such of that of "dun dun dun!" Anikan Skywalker/Darth Vader.



Its um...Anakin...I think Anikan is some named centaur in the barrens Mankirk has you kill for kicking his dog or something.

And a side question about Nehr'zul, I heard when Gul'dan betrayed him the one clan that supported him was the frostwolves and durotan. Now the son of Durotan leads the new Horde, think that will affect scourge-horde relations?

[Swerto]

Nah Nehr'zul is no longer an Orc, and has no Orc left in him. He is a lich, he wishes simply for control of all of Azeroth and eventually Outland.

[EnheilRas]

Ner'zhul ordered the complete destruction of a few entire clans during the Second War's Aftermath because they refused to take part in his plans.

What do you think he'll do if you don't want to do as he says now?

[turen]

bitchslap me.



Then as I walk away turn me inside out and set me on fire.

[Amaurn]

He is definately dead. 100% certain. If you look at the tooltip for the lich kings sword shown in the WOTL promo thingy it says that the user will become possessed by the lich king and will eventually become undead. Also from the way he behaves in WC3 he is dead for sure.

If someone has already said this then I agree!

[Raziel]

He's not dead. Not even in the physical sense anymore.

His very soul was INFUSED in that armor. He ascended beyond being than morals can comprehend. He became an Intelligence. An Overmind. A very ephemeral sentience. A force of willpower.

When Arthas put that armor on, Ner'zhul was given a body once more. Now the eye of the storm is mobile. Now his reach is perpetual.

[Anthek]

He is definately dead. 100% certain. If you look at the tooltip for the lich kings sword shown in the WOTL promo thingy it says that the user will become possessed by the lich king and will eventually become undead. Also from the way he behaves in WC3 he is dead for sure.

If someone has already said this then I agree!

Um, no. That was just a joke.

[Amaurn]

Might have been a joke but it still tells you what the makers opinion on the fact that Arthas is dead.

[Raziel]

Arthas hasn't been killed yet. How can he be dead? He was still alive and breathing when he put that mask on.

[Xiphus]

I think it is more accurate to say that Ner'zhul is dead. Deader than just dead. But still very much alive. Wait? Deader than dead but alive?

Ner'zhul is very much undead then.

[Emmons]

The Lich King isn't Arthas, and it isn't Ner'zhul. He's not living, nor dead. He's just the god damn Lich King. His own category. Lich King. Bam.

[Amaurn]

The Lich King isn't Arthas, and it isn't Ner'zhul. He's not living, nor dead. He's just the god damn Lich King. His own category. Lich King. Bam.

I'll go with that. He seems dead to me but we can all agree he is DAMN COOL!

[EnheilRas]

The Lich King isn't Arthas, and it isn't Ner'zhul. He's not living, nor dead. He's just the god damn Lich King. His own category. Lich King. Bam.

Actually you're wrong. It is Ner'zhul. The Lich King and Ner'zhul are synonymous.

[Lascivious]

Malakim hacked the gibson

Awesome.

[Icia]

Actually you're wrong. It is Ner'zhul. The Lich King and Ner'zhul are synonymous.
From what I understand, now that Arthas is wearing the armor, their very essences have fused and the Lich King is now both of them.

[EnheilRas]

From what I understand, now that Arthas is wearing the armor, their very essences have fused and the Lich King is now both of them.

It's a symbiosis of sorts to my own theories. No one can really be sure. Blizzard keeps just referring to it as Arthas, not Ner'zhul or the Lich King.

[Xiphus]

So we shall no longer call them Arthas, or Ner'zhul, or Ar'zhul or Ner'thas. We shall call them the Lich King. And he is very much alive, only with an undead soul stuck in it. Right now, Arthas's body is more like a shell than a real living, biological body.

[EnheilRas]

but that's not to say that he doesn't know who he still is.

[Xiphus]

He knows who he is. Every time you try to ask him who he is, he will reply, "I am the one true king." In a voice that is a combination of Ner'zhul and Arthas.

[EnheilRas]

Which is like my theory. It's more a Symbiosis. The "Venom Reflection" is pretty tried and tested explaination.

He is Arthas
It is Ner'zhul

They are Lich King.

[Roth'rili]

but that's not to say that he doesn't know who he still is.

Well I just now jumped in to this without reading much but the posts on this page. I would agree Frostmoorne had taken Arthas's soul he as his mind in contact but nothing like a conscience stopping him from any suggestive being telling him what to do. When he dawned the armor of Ner'zul which is the Lich King Ner'zul's soul filled the void that Arthas had. Ner'zul controls every bit of Arthas now and Arthas...just doesn't care he as his memories he just doesn't give a damn anymore.

Like the trailer to WotLK and the many developer interviews Arthas is still very much in tacked. He enjoys watching the adventures come to the frozen north like he did with the same purpose he did just to watch them fail like he did. He plays with the adventurers from the start schemeing everything showing the adventurers what he went through on his path to his downfall. I think he even knows the adventurers have to aid him in razing Stratholme in the Caverns of Time. Hes aware of what hes done and enjoys seeing mini hims come just so he can point and laugh and be like I fell the same way now you know my tortured existence! But when Ner'zul says jump Arthas will fricken jump just the way it is now.

Though I be suprised if Blizz was innovated as I thought while typing this out that Arthas is pretty much showing you his tortured existence...That he wants the players to end his life. Ner'zul is the one that wants to be all powerful maybe Arthas inside is screaming kill me? Never know

[EnheilRas]

Arthas? Emo? Listening to HIM? Noooo..

[Swerto]

Arthas and Ner'zhul are one, Blizzard has stated this. They say that it is not possession. Just read this recently, so I guess that kills my wishful fight >.>.

[Emmons]

So what you are saying is that my statement is correct. I stand by it.

[Amaurn]

They are one, they are one mind. They are no in conflict and one does not controll the other. They use Arthas or the Lich King interchangably. They simply merged when Arthas put the armor on.

And I stand by Emmons too, but no too close - he smells.