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View Full Version : [Spoilers] The Scryers and Aldor



Chikt
02-27-2007, 01:42 AM
So I have been doing the Aldor quests out in Netherstorm, and things are getting extremely interesting.

It sees you going to all the manaforges that Kael'thas has constructed and shutting them down, as well as killing any Blood Elves on the site or collecting orders. It gets to the last Manaforge, but the Aldor send you to another Draenei just a short ride away from the final manaforge. He tells you how, it turns out, their "two greatest enemies", the Burning Legion and the Sunfury, are actually allies. And he makes an interesting point.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Scryers had something to do with hiding this information from us, but we must now face the reality.

So this makes me wonder. The story behind the Scryers is basically that their leader had a vision that Kael'thas was going to lead the Blood Elves to destruction. What if it wasn't a vision at all? What if he actually learnt of their alliance, and wished no part of it, instead going to Shattrath to seek the aid of the Naaru. With the help of the Naaru, they formulate a story that the Aldor will believe and at least cooperate with the Scryers on some level. Not all the Scryers may be aware of the truth, so it is not widely known.

But not so much was the idea of the Scryers actually having knowledge about Kael'thas and the Burning Legion being allied the most interesting thing. That actually came from a seperate quest.

I used to be the foreman here. But now that I've been demoted, I've come to realize our pilgrimage from Quel'Thalas to Outland was all a lie.

A lie perpetrated by Kael'thas to strengthen his forces here in the Netherstorm.

This is said during the quest for "Dealing with the Overmaster" by the guy you expected to have to kill, but instead, have to help. If this is truly the case, it may explain just why the Blood Elf heirachy is in its current state, should they be aware of what Kael'thas has done and hunger to share that power he promises. Or, maybe they are simply so blind in their belief that he will save them all, that they would do anything to silence the nay-sayers.

If you roll a Blood Elf and do get to 60, I make a recommendation-definately go with the Scryers. The storyline surrounding them and Kael'thas is just brilliant. Not that I mean to say the Aldor one is sub-par, but it makes less sense for a Blood Elf to be with them unless their belief in Kael'thas is that strong. Eventually that belief would be slapped in their face, anyway.

Back to the Draenei near the final Manaforge. After you complete his quest, he has this to say:

My mission here is finished. I did what Orelis ordered me to - I've never failed to.

No more. I foresee a great carnage - a crusade, they'll call it - following the news of this alliance between Kael'thas and the Burning Legion.

First they give our holiest city away to our enemies and then they ask us to die fighting their enemies. Go back to Orelis; tell him the naaru can fight their own fights from now on.

This brings up the question, could the balance of trust with the Aldor and the Naaru actually be on shaky grounds if word about the Burning Legion and Kael'thas gets out? He seems highly emotional but he makes very valid points. It also explains some of the title of the expansion, "The Burning Crusade".

However, we've not seen any sort of large-scale clashing between the Naaru's forces and the Burning Legion/Sunfury. Maybe that is something that will come later down the line. But it does make me question the Naaru's ethics and beliefs. If they had known about Kael'thas and the Burning Legion all along-which really, they would have-why did they not inform the Aldor and the Scryers of it? Wouldn't that have given them both more reason to cooperate?

Not to mention the Naaru and Khadgar seem to be planning something. At least, in my opinion they do (Just check out his shifty eyes, dammit!). But in the Mag'har quest, there is a lot of reference to Light not being able to exist with Shadow, and vice versa. We actually learn of how light can attract shadow, and create shadow. Maybe the same goes for A'dal in Shattrath.

Nonetheless, I don't think things are going to be too based around Illidan alone. I think the game, as it goes on, will become much more centralised on the Sunfury and Burning Legion alliance, and the "great crusade" against them both. I smell exciting future patch content.

Cyrass
02-27-2007, 08:58 AM
Interesting. However, this does make some interesting and subdle turns in the story. Namely that in Shadow Moon Valley, the Legion and Illidari seem to be at war with each other, as shown by this item carried by Overmasters in Legion Hold and the quest that go with it

http://www.thottbot.com/?i=59444
http://www.thottbot.com/?qu=10623

The quest says that they are outfitting the demons of the Burning Legion with demon slaying weaponry to combat the demons of the Illidari.

This brings up a rather interesting question. Is Kael'Thas playing both sides of the war, has he both aligned himself with the forces of the Illidari and the Burning Legion? This would make things far more interesting, because it would show just how deep Kael'Thas' magical addiction is, that he has no loyalty left in him at all, that he is willing to betray everyone, even his own people for more magic.

Chikt
02-27-2007, 09:20 AM
From what I gathered, the basic assumption the Aldor are making on the Sunfury, Illidari and Burning Legion situation is something like this:

Illidan and Kael'thas used to be allied, but Kael'thas, either sensing Illidan's descent into madness or simply falling into his own, abandons Illidan and changes payrolls to the Burning Legion. The Burning Legion aids Kael'thas in understanding the Naaru technology to an unprecedented extent, and Kael'thas constructs the Mana Forges. One mana forge is shut down by attacking Void creatures, leaving 4 still active, however one is under constant attack by nether beasts. The Aldor and the Scryers respond swiftly and work towards having the Mana Forges shut down for good, lest their unstable state tear Netherstorm and the rest of Outland apart completely.

Illidan and Kael'thas, with Kael's betrayal, are now at war. And as such, the Burning Legion fights the Illidari by the Sunfury's side. However, this does pose the question: The Burning Legion are very much supporting the Sunfury forces right now, so what are they getting in return besides the increased numbers?

Valon
02-27-2007, 09:31 AM
I haven't worked all this out yet, so I'll post when I have some more solid theorem, but there was some rather interesting things on the scryer version of 'Shutting down the Manaforge.'

I do know for a fact however, that the Illidari and the Burning Legion are at odds with one another, and demons from the Burning Legion are defecting to Illidan. (as is shown in parts of the 'Cipher of Damnation' quest chain) If Kael'thas has any sort of alliance with the Burning Legion, one would suspect he no longer has an alliance with Illidan.

This leaves you to wonder. Lady Vashj. Is she still supporting Illidan, defected with Kael'thas, or has she simply gone off on her own?

Chikt
02-27-2007, 09:47 AM
Lady Vashj is still a mystery, it would seem. She has not been mentioned much at all, and her Naga have only been seen in Zangarmarsh. Nearly the furthest away place possible from Illidan's or Kael's forces.

Cyrass
02-27-2007, 10:40 AM
Go to Shadowmoon Valley, Diomades. It seems like there are plenty of Blood Elves still loyal to Illidan, and they are all carrying Sunfury signets, so I doubt that they have openly betrayed Illidan yet. Infact, some of Illidan's most elite soldiers, the Crimson Watch (http://www.thottbot.com/?qu=10781) are Blood Elves. Not to mention, there are a large ammount of Blood Elves on the side of The Black Temple.

As for what the Burning Legion is getting from helping Kael'Thas. They're possibly getting the loyalty of Kael'Thas and the Sunfury, so that one day he will be able to turn and give Legion the forces they may need to defeat the Illidari.

As for Vashj, I think that she remains loyal to Illidan, but we will see. I believe the theory that she and Illidan are going to try to make a new Well of Eternity. After all, Illidan had seven vials from the Well of Eternity, 3 used to make a new Well of Eternity in which the World Tree was grown, one given to Vashj and one given to Kael'Thas. That means there are two that are unaccounted for, so I feel that he is planning to make a third Well of Eternity with the waters from Zangamarsh and the 2 remianing vials.

Chikt
02-27-2007, 10:49 AM
My understanding was that the Sunfury were the warriors of Kael'thas, not of Illidan himself. This is backed up by the fact that Manaforge Ara in Netherstorm sees both Burning Legion demons and Kael'thas Sunfury forces working together, as I describe in my first post. However, it is most definately possible and likely that there are Blood Elves who sided with Illidan or Kael after the split up, or it is actually Kael's forces at the Black Temple trying to get to Illidan.

Cyrass
02-27-2007, 10:56 AM
Well, the ones in Shadowmoon are called "Illidari" and "Eclipsion" in the begining of their names. However, they all seem to be remaining loyal to Kael'Thas (Since they are all carrying the Signets, signs of loyalty to the Prince.) that are obviously still serving in the forces of the Illidari. So while the Sunfury are sided with Illidan, you are correct in saying that they are the warriors of Kael'Thas. They all, at least in Shadowmoon, seem loyal to the cause of the Illidari, since the majority of them are shown wearing the tabard of the Illidari.

Chikt
02-27-2007, 11:00 AM
Hm. A possible explanation for the sunfury signets on them would be that they are fighting the Sunfury themselves, and could have possibly picked them up. Or simple to simplify things in a game mechanics sense so that Scryers agents could easily pick out targets and know what they would drop. So Aldor attack and kill Demons, Scryers attack and kill Blood Elves, and get reputation either way.

Cyrass
02-27-2007, 11:16 AM
This is true, but I am still one to believe that there is more to it then just reputation, I do feel that Kael'Thas is working for both sides.

Chikt
02-27-2007, 11:20 AM
This is true, but I am still one to believe that there is more to it then just reputation, I do feel that Kael'Thas is working for both sides.

That would make a lot of sense, yes.

Redburn
02-27-2007, 11:38 AM
Infact, some of Illidan's most elite soldiers, the Crimson Watch (http://www.thottbot.com/?qu=10781) are Blood Elves. Not to mention, there are a large ammount of Blood Elves on the side of The Black Temple.

It still gives me a chuckle seeing them in game. I just wish they get out of my guild chat.

Keraph
02-27-2007, 12:20 PM
The Illidari demons by themselves confuse me. If Illidan is able to persuade, without enslaving, demons of the Burning Legion to defect to his own faction, he must have one HELL of a bargaining chip. Seriously, if the Legion is the most powerful organization in the known universe, why would any of it's members choose to defect from it, to a presumably weaker faction. Kael'thas, on the other hand, seems to be making the more pragmatic choice, aligning himself with the Legion guarantees that he and his people will be well taken care of, as far as their addiction goes. I'm definately looking foward to seeing how this all pans out.

Cyrass
02-27-2007, 12:27 PM
Well, as strong as the Legion is, it's at the weakest it's even been right now. My opinion is that there has been chaos in the legion since five years ago, when Archimonde was defeated. I'm not sure what Illidan would have to bargin demons to completly side with him. However, it could also be that the demons sided with the Illidari are not there by choice, and that there are powerful warlocks in the Illidari that are keeping these demons enslaved and bound to their will.

I agree though, I would love to see how it all plays out.

Fallacy
02-27-2007, 01:44 PM
The reason why the demons are defecting? Illidan has the power of the Well of Eternity. He still holds one of the vials, while giving the other remaining two to his most trusted allies, Kael and Vashj. With the waters of Zangarmarsh, and the energy of the Twisting Nether, he plans to recreate the Well in Outland, which would give him incredible power.

Cyrass
02-27-2007, 01:47 PM
The reason why the demons are defecting? Illidan has the power of the Well of Eternity. He still holds one of the vials, while giving the other remaining two to his most trusted allies, Kael and Vashj. With the waters of Zangarmarsh, and the energy of the Twisting Nether, he plans to recreate the Well in Outland, which would give him incredible power.
Sorry to nitpick, but it's 2 vials :P. Other that that little nitpick, you bring up a good point on why they would want to side with Illidan.

Fallacy
02-27-2007, 01:50 PM
Illidan originally took five vials from the original Well. One was used to create the World Tree, one went missing, and the other three he kept.

Aquizit
02-27-2007, 02:33 PM
Gah, time to dig through my book.. since I'm -pretty- sure he poured three into the lake that Nordrassil was planted over.. Edit coming soon with the answer.


EDIT:

From The Sundering:


"The Well of Eternity might be gone, but Illidan Stormrage had saved a small bit of it.

It'll work! I know it'll work! He had felt the Well's astonishing properties himself. Even so minute an amount would be potent.

The stopper shaped like Queen Azshara once more danced for him before popping off. Letting the stopper fall to the grass, the night elf held the open container over the lake.

He poured the contents into the water.

The lake shimmered where the drops of the Well touched it. The water, originally a calm blue, suddenly glowed intensely where the drops hit. The change spread rapidly, first cutting across to the island, then around it. In but seconds, the entire lake had taken on a rich azure hue that no one could mistake as other than magic.

To Illidan's hightened senses, the spectacle was even more breathtaking. He had expected a reproduction of the Well, but this was fascinating in itself.

Yet . . . it could still be so much more.

He reached into the pouch and removed a second vial.

This time, the sorcerer simply tore off the stopper and dumped the contents into the lake. As he did, the blue intensified further. Tendrils of raw enery began to play on the surface and Illidan felt a wonderful radiance that he had not experienced since the Well.

His lips parted. He wanted to throw himself into the water, but managed to hold back. His hand slipped to the pouch.

What would a third vial do?

He undid the stopper and started to pour."



It then goes on to say he has at least four more vials.. although the exact number is left unanswered.

So, the first statement is assumed correct.

Cyrass
02-27-2007, 07:24 PM
Illidan originally took five vials from the original Well. One was used to create the World Tree, one went missing, and the other three he kept.
http://www.thottbot.com/?qu=10445

Says Seven there, and nothing about one going missing.