Troll dialects

[Sulajin]

Okay, it's been popping up recently in RP. The whole language issue for Trolls. People keep trying to correct me and tell me that Sulajin isn't speaking "Trollish" but "Amani". Problem is, Sul's Darkspear, and not mainstream Darkspear either. Rather, he came from a small island that was contested by the Blackrock Orcs (which slightly explains his violent disposition...). Why would a Jungle Troll be speaking a Forest Troll language? Shouldn't he speak Gurubashi?

Now, I'm no linguistic expert, by any means, but I've done some thinking on it and have come up with a solution that makes logical sense.

Dialects. Sounds simple, yes? No. Dialects are scary as fuck. Best example I can think of is Chinese. Everyone knows there is no such language as "Chinese". It is in fact known as Mandarin.

Mandarin is not Chinese.

Mandarin is very different from the various other dialects. So much so that they can very easily be completely unintelligible. The one thing that unites them? Written Language. The chinese character system is so widespread that a Japanese, and a Korean, and a Chinese can have at least rudimentery conversation using writing alone.

Why aren't Trolls any different? What makes all Trolls united in the Amani dialect? They haven't had a unified government to declare it the official language for hundreds of years at minimum? There really is no reason (aside to ease RP) that Khiskiva, for example, should be able to speak in "Troll" with Zasien. The Sandfury aren't likely to even share the old Troll writing system anymore! Too far seperate...

Just venting.

[Raziel]

Aman'i tend to speak like Cubans.

Gurubash'i tend to speak like Haitians.

[Vilmah]

EDIT: Ah, sorry, didn't read that last part.

In my defense, I see Troll like I see Spanish. I'm from Spain, I speak it one way. Central Americans speak it another way, but they can still, to a degree understand eachother.

[Jemmalass]

*trolls are having a conversation when suddenly a Forsaken screams at the top of his lungs*

"DEAR GOD! THEY'RE SPEAKING IN TONGUES! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!"

[Niethan]

I'd go with the dialect/Spanish theory for different troll subspecies, but why in hell would you be accused of speaking Aman'i? Sulajin isn't remotely Forest. Niethan uses an Aman'i dialect when he's speaking in troll simply to differentiate that he is speaking the same language, only slightly different.

[Zasein]

This is warcraft. All da orcses talk the same. All da trollses talk the same. All da humans speak common. And everyone who isn't a human or an orc is bilingual. Undead can't talk common neither. People come back to life. Magic infused humans corrupted by spirits of titans open up portals to different worlds. Applying reality to fantasy is ridiculous, although much much fun.

Although you do have a completely valid point, I'm going to use English as an example. In the sixteenth century, (something like that anyway) it went through a period called the "great vowel shift." where all the long vowels changed sounds. Ever since, it has been spoken pretty much the same way pretty much everywhere. But then again, none of the groups have been even remotely cut off from each other.

[Sulajin]

Well the fantasy to reality bit aside...

A lot of the Troll tribes were fairly well cut off from each other, I mean, they've evolved into entirely different subspecies. What has that done to their linguistic capabilities? It'd be like trying to talk Latin to one of the bush tribes of Africa...

And the Darkspear? They were trapped on an island chain in the center of a magically induced hurricane! There is no way in hell that they could retain linguistic compatability with the Aman'i, Gurubashi, or any other group of Trolls...

That said, my character replaced his heart with a gemstone, then drained the blood from his body...

So yeah. Fantasy.

Sorry, but even though it's fantasy I still think it should be beleivable. All good fantasy is. Look at Discworld. Completely fucked up magic as hell setting. Excessively believable characters. And the way they interact with the world? Priceless.

[Fallacy]

They still all speak the same language. They've conversed that way for thousands of years, and they were not out of touch with each other. They still all met with the Zandalar periodically to discuss the state of the troll race, and had to have spoken the same language (different dialects or not) to be able to. Sort of to the extent that Darnassian and Thelassian are different, but not nearly as seperate.

[Sulajin]

Ooh... forgot about that. Points to Fallacy.

But did that include Darkspear? After all, it's hard to meet up with the entire race when you're surrounded by a magical hurricane that just won't die! Or out in the heart of the desert... Or somewhere attop a mountain.

[Fallacy]

All the tribes, until recently, including those psychotic Atal'ai.

[Sulajin]

Well that is a very good, believable explanation as to how that could have worked...


Except for the damn magical hurricane trapping the Darkspear! I thought they were trapped, that was how Thrall resdued them! Aside from the bit with Ursula...

Damnit, Blizzard... now I'm all confused.

[Niethan]

I don't recall the Darkspear being anywhere near the Maelstrom. They were just out on an island chain... which got stormed and flooded by murlocs.

[Zasein]

They were actually south of the malestorm, on the broken islands. They went there because the other jungle troll tribes drove them out of strangle thorn. Thrall's fleet got thrown off course by the malestorm, and was forced to land on the islands.

[Sulajin]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

I'm going to be quiet now.

[Raziel]

All trolls speak Zandali.

It's the primal language they've had since they were all the Zandalaar.

There just happen to be accents, like any language.

[Sanrin]

And yet...the Zandalar speak common...

[Sulajin]

Like any language... Right.

Any language that gets spread around as much as the Trolls doesn't get accents. It branches into new linguistic groupings! I would like to point out the difference between Egyptian and Arabic. Now to try and keep that across the world?

Languages are verbalized symbolic representations of reality. When your reality consists mostly of sand and sun, it's going to be very different from the group who's reality is moslty trees.

[Vilmah]

I dissagree! My dad is from a jungle. My mom is from a desert. Their Spanish is different, but still similar enough to understand eachother. VERY different accents, but fundementally similar.

[Sulajin]

Well that's somewhat different, concidering the technology level of the last few hundred years...

Also bear in mind the linguistic differences in Europe alone! Hell, German and English are wildly vagrant, and English is a Germanic language. Compare their physical seperation compared to some of the Troll tribes. It'd be more like German and Hindi staying the same after all that time!






Although Hindi is technically placed with the European languages... but that's different. Hindi is a linguistic aberation.

[Vilmah]

Still, anyone who speaks English can more or less catch on to some German. Inthe place my mom's from, theyspeak Catalan. It's a language like Italian/French/Spanish combined, and people who speak it can understand just about all of the Romance languages.

[Sulajin]

True enough. Europe is littered with those tiny little halfway dialects...

It's been said that if you walk fifteen miles down the coast, you can find someone who can speak the language the next fifteen miles down, and so on and so forth.

But Trolls aren't that widespread anymore. Most of those in between dialects have faded out or been whiped off.

My point still stands!

[Vilmah]

I'm sticking to my story. Khiskiva is a filthy Sandfury who speaks Troll eliquently and Orcish with a thick-as-molasses accent.

[Khyle]

Aman'i tend to speak like Cubans.

Gurubash'i tend to speak like Haitians.

It's like Grand Theft Auto:Vice City all over again...

~E

[Sulajin]

Well obviously the most important thing is the RP. It's fun that way, no one wants to be completely unintelligible all the time. At least they soon seam to realise that it's not as amusing as they first thought.

[Jemmalass]

I think there should be a fight to solve this...you guys are the sharks and we'll be the Jets!

*Start Snapping his Fingers and walking around in circles*

[Raziel]

And yet...the Zandalar speak common...

Whatever they have to do to manipulate you into doing their bidding I s'pose.

[Sorchea]

I think there should be a fight to solve this...you guys are the sharks and we'll be the Jets!

*Start Snapping his Fingers and walking around in circles*

I'll have you know I just now spit coffee out of my nose onto my work computer.

[Sulajin]

Really? Cause that one kind of went over my head.


What are you talking about, Jem?

[Vilmah]

Dude, come on.. West Side Story... ;)

[Sulajin]

Nope. Haven't seen it.

I did finally get around to watching the entire Matrix trillogy a bout a week ago. It was silly.

What was the deal with the sunglasses?

[Vilmah]

The Matrix is the lamest trillogy I have ever seen. I never understood the hype. It made me want to bleed from both eyes. If it had been INTENTIONALLY cheesy/silly, I would have loved it. Instead it spawned a religious fan base who claim that The Matrix is the best film series of all time.

[Sulajin]

Yeah, I wasn't a fan. The first movie was decent, but pushed it.

My favorite part was imagining the real world Neo.

"You cannot stand before me, for I am the one and a master of Kung Fu"

"You are a vat raised blob of flesh, your muscles long since atrophied away, and though your mind knows Kung Fu your body is not attuned to it. Plus your haxxorz skillz are meaningless in reality."

"So...?"

"So I have a gun. Bitch."

*Neo timidly puts on his sunglasses. Neo gains two stamina*

[Ellenia]

Just a quick question, but since accent arise from speaking a non-native language, do players who RP trolls speaking in trollish actually speak normally?

i.e.

[Orcish] "What be happenin', mon?" = [Trollish] "What say, fellows, how are you all this fine day?"

[Raziel]

Now that is a mindfuck.

[Leyujin]

I speak normally in trollish, while I might write with an accent out of stubborness, I realize trolls don't speak to each other with an "accent" if they were raised in the same area. Not that I don't throw in some of my idiosyncratic ways of talking, but that's about it. However, it's interesting to note that trolls might very well talk with accents to each other, just as people from different parts of America do (or god forbid, as previously mentioned, in completely different dialects aka China). This makes me think about making ANOTHER accent in troll that represents my tribe's way of speaking. Omg... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That would be a devilish endeavour indeed!

[Jemmalass]

[Orcish]'Ey Mons, ah ju doin? = [Troll] Howdy yall. How yah doin' on this fiiine sunny day.


....yeah...I made Jemmalass a hick...piss off.

[Vilmah]

Just a quick question, but since accent arise from speaking a non-native language, do players who RP trolls speaking in trollish actually speak normally?

i.e.

[Orcish] "What be happenin', mon?" = [Trollish] "What say, fellows, how are you all this fine day?"

Yes! In fact I RPed that in the story "Sandfury Temper" with Zasien. When Khiskiva speaks in Troll, she speaks quite eloquently.

[Sulajin]

I've allways done Sul with a slightly minnesotan accent in Troll. Because that's who I am and how I talk. Just kidding. It's a troll accent, it wouldn't show up in Troll because that's how it's supposed to sound.

What I've wondered about is the "Mon" bit... it doesn't really occur in Orcish, except where Trolls are involved. Therefor, I maintain it is in fact a hold over from Troll, and they are perfectly justified in using it in their native language.

Other thing I wonder about is "Tastingo" or however it's spelled... exclamations have a tendency to reflect religion (Jesus Christ! Good god... etc.), therefore I have allways maintained that "Tastingo" is in fact "By Tingo" in Troll. That's just my opinion though...

[Upae]

This is a topic near and dear to my heart.

Lupa ( and now the mentally restored Upae) never spoke with the Jamaican drawl that most of the "Darkspear" trolls seem to favour. Lupa was Revantusk, a seafaring, fishing Amani offshoot. Her accent I always maintained as slightly different because of geography.

I think I posted that somewhere else before, maybe it was the " Troll accent writing" thread. But for inspiration I looked north from the Caribbean and wound up in New Orleans!

So Lupa/Upae speaks troll with more of a southern bayou drawl than a Jamaican one. Still voodoo/houdou and all that, just less Bob Marley and more Madam X.

That kind of follows the logic of the different Spanish dialects. I support this thread

[Sulajin]

My threads kick ass.

And yeah, the Revantusk should have different accent, I don't know if it would be more Bayou... but I don't see why it shouldn't, either.


But I still say it should be Raventusk and not Revantusk. Makes more sense...

[Raziel]

It's Cuban! CUBAN I SAY!