warlocks

[Cleonarg]

when did warlocks apper in the alliance?

[EnheilRas]

When they "got away" with studying it in Dalaran

[Brakogar]

There isnt much detail on this at least non that I can think of at the moment but they begun studying it in Dalaran as Manus says during and after the second War.

It appears that some wizzards became impressed by the powers of the Death Knights and decided to study it underground.

I am not sure but there may also have been some human study on Demonic magics during the first War as conjurers would have seen the powers of the Necrolites and Warlocks on the Battlefield and may have been fascinated by it.

There is also Medivh who most defenetely practiced Warlock magics but that was under the influence of Sargeras.

[Lupen]

Like Manus said, they came individually from Dalaran, but were influenced during the second and third wars by Sargaras, some joined the Burning Legion.

[EnheilRas]

I'd go into this more..

But I'm Faaaaar too busy

http://www.comedycentral.com/images/shows/drawntogether/videos/season2/dt_214_winner_m4.jpg

Bein' delicious

[Fallacy]

And here I was thinking that the mages of Stormwind stole it from the orcs near the end of the First War.

[Melairina]

Human Warlocks were Mages from the Kirin Tor that delved too deeply into the roots of demonic power and were removed from the organization. Consumed by a lust for dark knowledge, they tapped into chaotic magic from beyond the world. The Burning Legion fed them their powers, allowing them to channel destructive energies and call upon the powerful emissaries of their demon masters. Many of the human warlocks pledged their lives and services to the Lich King just prior to the invasion of his undead Scourge. In the Lich King's service many of these warlocks became skilled necromancers. In addition, the Lich King granted many of his undead servants limited warlock abilities as well. When the portal to the Twisting Nether was finally opened and the demons began pouring through, it seemed that the heyday of the warlocks was at hand. However, many of the human warlocks after the war third war are former mages, fresh from the destruction of the Violet Citadel, who seek revenge, embracing the path of the warlock in order to turn the fel energies of the legion against its self.[ citation needed ]

However, against impossible odds, the orcs, humans and night elves defeated the Legion at Mount Hyjal in distant Kalimdor. A short time following this battle, a night elf named Illidan cast a mighty spell intended to melt the polar icecap of Northrend. The spell was interrupted, but the Frozen Throne of the Lich King was significantly damaged. The Lich King gradually lost control over a good portion of his servants. These Forsaken, as they began to call themselves, found that, while still undead, they had had their spirits returned to their bodies regaining their free will. Consequently, many of the Forsaken embraced their demonic tendencies and became warlocks. Forsaken society is perhaps the only one in which the warlocks are accepted as legitimate magic users.

Gnomes are also known as proficient warlocks, and they appear to have a more accepted role within their respective society than, for example, orcs or humans.

[Grimfury]

That is because all gnomes are evil, and as such should be immediately squashed, stabbed, or eaten on sight. Your choice!!:P

[Zelphie]

It is uncertain when or how gnomes had adopted warlock or even basic magic in general, whether from the Kirin Tor, Elves, Fel Orcs, or somehow learned it their selves.

[Bir]

The Alliance gets warlocks because the Horde do too. Lore bent for the game balance... Anyone say Blood Knight?

[Raziel]

Well, not exactly Bir.

Now why we can go into the Alliance having the first warlocks due to the longstanding history of Warlock Magicks and Necromancy from the Ancient Keldorei, that's just a technicality, because those Keldorei Warlocks became Naga and Satyr, and the Keldorei society exiled/killed the others.

Orcs mastered Warlock Magics and were the first to bring Necromancy about, which according to Warcraft Lore is an elite Warlock Specialization, as it requires a much deeper mastery of "Void Magic" to which Warlock and standard Mage Schools draw from (As we discover from the Moonwell/Sunwell that acts as a median drawing energy directly from the source).

To say that the Humans, Quel'dorei, and Gnomes were "Learned" Warlock magics is kind of folly, because that implies that the Horde "taught" them. Though it can be easily argued that Medivh was a strong Warlock, as he had a link to Gul'dan, the Disciple of Ner'zhul, both of which are some of the strongest warlocks in Lore (the latter being the strongest Necromancer in Lore).

Now certainly the Blackrock Clan under Blackhand the Destroyer, and the Twilight's Hammer and Stormreaver Clans under Cho'gall and Gul'dan gave the Alliance more than an eye-ful of Warlock Magicks in the first Two Wars, and the Draenor Expeditionary Team got more than they were ready for when Ner'zhul raised the Death Knights from the spirits of Gul'dan's Necrolytes with the Silver Hand Paladin bodies.

But you see, these Orcs had formal training. The Kirin Tor were just toying with Warlock magicks without any actual knowledge into what they were dealing with. The Dalaran High Society had a right to be suspicious. They never had a master of it until a man from the north named Kel'thuzad came about... And he had training from Ner'zhul.

Thanks for digging this threat up Zelphie. I almost forgot about my awesome JUDGE FUDGE picture..

I have to go back and get busy...

....bein' delicious

[Icia]

Buuut, these warlocks were always somewhat shunned by most of the humans, weren't they?

It seems the warlocks were only in cults, not accepted and integrated into society.

[Lupen]

I'll shorten this a bit; Warlocks for the Alliance, 99% of the time, are outcasts. The Alliance hardly accepts them, due to the fact they dabble in the Nether. Gnomes, through my speculation, gained their fel-knowledge through the Krin'Tor, as one of the first Gnomes in WoW Lore was part of the inner circles.

The Horde, however, is a different story. The New Horde accepts Warlocks as a necessary part of the battle. Orcs are more honour bound than Belfs or Forsaken. Orcs of the new horde have a tendency to shun Warlocks for following the path of Gul'dan, who is seen as a traitor... For the most part. The Old Horde is purely the opposite. Forsaken embrace Warlocks as a powerful commodity, and Blood Elves accept them, considering that the majority of them are addicted to magic like crack.

[Ninorra]

Am not!! *sniffs arm*

[Zelphie]

I attempted to explain an example of gnomish adoption of warlock magic in Zelphie's character bio. Gnomes more or less were an independent, adventurous sort who could just as well found magic through various ways, and when reuniting shared their knowledge.

In Zelphie's char bio, her family was one of the first to directly learn the teachings of the warlock arts through fel orcs, which Gul'Dan surmised the gnomish race as neutral and capable of manipulation like Orcs, or possibly having accidental summonings to spread confusion.

Zelphie's Character Biography: http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=5997

[Raziel]

I wish that made absolutley any sense Zelphie, but it just doesn't.

The Gnomes had always been a part of the Alliance from it's get go. They were responsible for mainly reconnaissance and other forms of engineering that the Dwarves couldn't muster through.

Gnomish gyrocopters were an important part of Alliance Scouting and enemy surveillance during the second War.

Also, anything non-Orcish were killed on site by the Fel Horde.

Arrrgh.. you make my mind bleed!

[Zelphie]

Unfortunately, gnomes are so poorly constructed in this game, that I can actually get away with this. If a high class fel orc had reasons to find other souls to corrupt, which is a very common and popular trend of the burning legion, than it seems ok for him to order troops "not to attack this settlement".

If you examine the manipulation of races burning legion had, you'd see that the orcs still had their own will and weren't the perfect killing machine that they later devised with the scourge. So it could be just as well they knew to try and influence local inhabitants of kalimdor to help spread demonic influences.

The fact that gnomes have no tangible home town or history, and the fact no one can explain how they developed magic, makes it hard for me to explain the warlock connection. My previous storyline of her was similar but more cliche, and I felt that having some direct impact against the alliance would make her seem not as loyal to the alliance as it should be. Also, a gnome's lifespan indicates that many were in their midlife or older and are still suitable for the alliance force post-dark portal.

[Raziel]

Unfortunately, gnomes are so poorly constructed in this game, that I can actually get away with this. If a high class fel orc had reasons to find other souls to corrupt, which is a very common and popular trend of the burning legion, than it seems ok for him to order troops "not to attack this settlement".

And when would this have happened? 30 Years ago in the First War when Khaz Modan became under control of the Horde? Ironforge and Gnomeregan were territories of the Bleeding Hollow. The Warlock Clans were only interested in Stormwind and Northshire.

Even then, the Doctrine of the Horde was that of complete annihilation of the enemy. In the First War, there were no prisoners taken. Blackhand the Destroyer was a puppet, but a cruel puppet. The Blackrock Clan delighted in the public burnings of survivors. It doesn't make sense that they would try to enlist any non-Draenor race to their cause. Why would the races volunteer to destroy their own people? There's too many loopholes in that logic. You're trying to make a rock fly here.

In the Second War, the Warlocks were NOT in power. All but 3 were killed by Orgrim DoomHammer personally (vengence for Durotan's assassination). This would include your Fel Orc, and thus Orgrim would have destroyed his little acolytes as well. It says clearly that every single one of them were killed besides Gul'dan, Cho'gall, and Ner'zhul. Gul'dan himself would have died to, had he not submitted to DoomHammer.


If you examine the manipulation of races burning legion had, you'd see that the orcs still had their own will and weren't the perfect killing machine that they later devised with the scourge. So it could be just as well they knew to try and influence local inhabitants of kalimdor to help spread demonic influences.

Actually no. They did not have their own will. When the Warsong drank of Mannoroth's Blood, they were no longer the people they once were. They were completely oppressed by the Blood in them. They weren't converting anything. They were killing everything, and corrupting and burning all around them. That was what the Horde was doing in the First War, and in the Blood River Wars of Draenor.

They weren't the "perfect killing machine" because they had failed due to infighting. DoomHammer's destruction of the Stormreaver and Twilight's Hammer Clan and the ordered killing of Gul'dan and Cho'gall in the Battle of Balor and the Tomb of Sargeras finalized the death of all the original Warlocks of the Horde, aside from Ner'zhul.

The Horde had absolutely no intention to spread demonic influence. Gul'dan's pact was for Power. The Horde's intention was complete conquest and the control of new lands. They had to keep fighting and keep killing because of the Demon Blood. The whole Azeroth ordeal was a necessity because after the conquest of Draenor, they started turning on each other because they could just not stop their battlelust for death and war. The WarCraft Wars were what was needed so the Demon Blood didn't destroy the entire Orcish race from Civil Wars.

[Icia]

Actually no. They did not have their own will. When the Warsong drank of Mannoroth's Blood, they were no longer the people they once were. They were completely oppressed by the Blood in them. They weren't converting anything. They were killing everything, and corrupting and burning all around them. That was what the Horde was doing in the First War, and in the Blood River Wars of Draenor.The point here was that they still had the will to fight it. Grom proved that it was possible, after all. They used their own minds, however tainted by the bloodlust they may have been. The Scourge, on the other hand, are directly controlled, if necessary. They don't have free will at all.

[Raziel]

Grom didn't control it at all.

Orc stopped fighting when the Blood Haze lifted after the Death of Nekros, the final Warlock of the Dragonmaw Clan (lead by Zuluhed the Whacked). Grom just never gave up the desire to fight, whether or not he was poisoned by the Blood of Mannoroth.

When he re-fused with the Demon Curse. He once more no longer had any means to resist that will to fight.

[Darkblade]

When he re-fused with the Demon Curse. He once more no longer had any means to resist that will to fight.

Until, you know, he resisted it and gave Manny the smackdown while Thrall cried in the corner.

[Raziel]

No, that was after Thrall killed Grom, and used a Soulstone to trap his uncorrupted spirit in it (Just like they do in Diablo), and Jaina reincarnated his body from the artifact.

[Redcap]

Does it really matter why she said her gnome got it's power?

I mean for a guy who seems to know his lore I am trying to figure out how you got a Earth bound empire into Azeroth

[Sulajin]

The Earthbound?

Shit, as long as they aren't of the Seventh House.

[Darkblade]

No, that was after Thrall killed Grom, and used a Soulstone to trap his uncorrupted spirit in it (Just like they do in Diablo), and Jaina reincarnated his body from the artifact.

I don't seem to remember that cutscene from Warcraft III

[Zelphie]

Raziel, the fact alone that they succumbed to infighting suggests their own will. If they had no will, they would have obeyed the burning legion's word down to the T, and not have done infighting. Not being able to be controlled is proof of will.

Also since when did I say the gnomes, and perhaps, some humans or even trolls, intended to destroy the other races of the world? The burning legion could have judged them as not able to control their magic and cause havoc through accident. You do remember that that's what drew the burning legion to Kalimdor in the first place, right? The fact that the night elves, and later the dalaran wizards, could not control the magic they unleashed. So it was easy to conclude the burning legion thought they could manipulate the races to further cause problems through magic. Just because it was not written, does not mean it couldn't have happened.

Why don't you shed some light on the lore of gnomes and then tell me if I'm in the wrong for improvising? Because if we took everything literally, then gnomes would have learned magic within 2 years of their 150-180 year lifespan, i.e. when WoW timeline started. That hardly seems like enough time to become as proficient as humans or orcs.

[Raziel]

Does it really matter why she said her gnome got it's power?

I mean for a guy who seems to know his lore I am trying to figure out how you got a Earth bound empire into Azeroth

Well that's easy.. I played an Orc not related to this name.

And if you'd like to know how he got into Azeroth, I have a fancy 70+ page story written in very small font you may read if you are so inclined, covering 40 years of his life.

[Raziel]

I don't seem to remember that cutscene from Warcraft III

Final Level in the Orc Campaign in WarCraft III, the Battle of Felwood.

Main Objective: Kill Grom Hellscream with the Soulstone item given to Thrall by Jaina, and Return it to the Ritual Summoning Circle between the Human and Horde bases.

Grom cannot be saved any other way. He is fully a slave to the Demon Haze as it the Warsong Sect which followed him.

When Thrall returns with the Soulstone, Jaina places it in the Ritual Summoning Circle and reincarnates Grom back to life through the purity of his soul (since his blood and body had become enslaved due to the Demon Taint, his Spirit was incorruptible, but unable to act).

Thus Grom is reborn without the curse, and he and Thrall march into the Canyon to seek his redemption.

[Fallacy]

Gnomeregan had no exposure to the Horde until the Second War, during which they came under attack because they were allies with Ironforge, both having joined the newly formed Alliance. Gnomes were never neutral during that time, having always been close to the dwarves, who helped them build their capital city, but took a major backstep away from fighting because of the trogg invasion not long after the Second War ended.

Dalaran had been aware of demonic threat for nearly a thousand years, with the Tirisfalen Council and the Guardians secretively at the front line. They hunted down the rogue mages that practiced warlock magic, and were never responsible for bringing the Burning Legion to Azeroth, instead actively fighting it, albeit without public awareness. Erbag was a famous gnome wizard that served on the Council when Aegwynn was appointed Guardian.

Things changed drastically after the Second War. Nations were falling apart at the seams because of the damage the Horde had done. The Alliance nearly disbanded, and many mages took to working on their own, apart from Dalaran, which had been sacked along with several other countries. Without the restrictions of the Kirin Tor, the mages were free to study the magics they wanted, although warlocks had to do so more subtly, often in hiding for fear of any reprecussion. Despite the second invasion of the Burning Legion, their practices became more widespread and into the situation we now know.

[Raziel]

Raziel, the fact alone that they succumbed to infighting suggests their own will. If they had no will, they would have obeyed the burning legion's word down to the T, and not have done infighting. Not being able to be controlled is proof of will.

Only two Orcs were actually aware of the Burning Legion's existence: Ner'zhul, and Gul'dan. The original Chieftains who drank of the Blood didn't know what Mannoroth was. Gul'dan promised them that it would give them untold power.

As I said, the reason that they started to fight each other is because they had conquered the entire world of Draenor and killed any resistance to their over-rule of the Planet. They just could not stop fighting or killing because they were hazed to be an unstoppable war machine, completely incapable of peaceful relations. The only reason the Orcs could stand each other was because they were united to the goal of Orcish supremacy. Once that was attained, it immediately shifted to clan supremacy. They were the only ones left to fight, and because they could not stop killing, they started killing each other.

Kil'jaeden's pact with Gul'dan allowed the Orcish people another enemy to kill, it allowed the race not to destroy itself. The Infighting in the event of the Second War was due completely to Gul'dan and Cho'gall betraying Orgrim DoomHammer (Gul'dan was never hazed. He was just an evil son of a bitch who would sacrifice anything for the promise of power).




When you insisted one might have been drained by a member of the Shadow Council.

[quote]The burning legion could have judged them as not able to control their magic and cause havoc through accident. You do remember that that's what drew the burning legion to Kalimdor in the first place, right? The fact that the night elves, and later the dalaran wizards, could not control the magic they unleashed. So it was easy to conclude the burning legion thought they could manipulate the races to further cause problems through magic. Just because it was not written, does not mean it couldn't have happened.

It wasn't a measure of control at all. It was due to the Well of Eternity having been tapped by the Keldorei that signalled the world of Azeroth to Sargeras' army like a beacon. The Legion feeds on magical energies. They leave entire worlds lifeless and ashen after draining the whole planets from it's ley energies. The moment the Kaldorei began ostentatiously weaving spells, it triggered the world of Azeroth's presence through the void.

All the mages were killed off or exiles from Kaldorei society, the Quel'dorei exiles deeply controlled magical use, only allowing a select few to use it, until the Troll Wars, where they signed a pact with Humanity. But even Dalaran Mages heavily restricted their numbers and their use, including during Wartime.


Why don't you shed some light on the lore of gnomes and then tell me if I'm in the wrong for improvising? Because if we took everything literally, then gnomes would have learned magic within 2 years of their 150-180 year lifespan, i.e. when WoW timeline started. That hardly seems like enough time to become as proficient as humans or orcs.

Humans aren't going to be as experienced in Warlock Magics as Orcs.
Gnomes aren't going to be as experienced in Warlock Magics as Humans.

But that doesn't mean there can't be a proficiency. That's what the racial bonuses are for.