Open Mouth, Insert Foot

[Ashagga]

I'm worried that I may have miswritten Ashagga's history. If she's 18 years old, then she couldn't have been born in Orgrimmar, since, if I now understand correctly, Orgrimmar didn't EXIST at the time.

Can someone give me a brief but complete (I know, that's asking a lot) history on the orcs for the last 18 years?

[EnheilRas]

Uhhh

Okay..

WoW Begins 4 Years after the Battle of Hyjal. Considering you use a Dynamic Timeline, we're pushing on 5 years from *now* is the Battle of Hyjal.

We can superimpose that all of WarCraft III didn't take a year.. It most likely took around two years from the start to the end of WarCraft III. That's 7 Years ago.

From this point, it was 7 years between when Thrall escaped Durnholde to when he began WarCraft Three. That's 14 Years (It took him 3 Years to destroy Durnholde from Escaping it {He was 21 at the time when he killed Blackmoore after rescuing and destroying all the Slavery Camps}).

The other Four years are reminiscient of three ideologies: You were a Frostwolf living in Alterac. You were a Warsong scrounging to Survive in Stonard in the Horde Underground, or you were some other Clan held in the Internment Camps. Most children of the Horde are understandbly either born in freedom in the Frostwolf Village, and their attitudes tend to be very liberal and hopeful of World Peace and working with the Alliance and focusing directly on Horde Matters and Defending Horde Land; Or they were born in the Slave Camps of Hillsbrad and Arathi, and are scorned from their Childhood of internment and captivation. These children grow to be hateful of the Alliance and Warmongering. They tend to attack all Alliance races out of spite for their lost childhood, and are scarred by memories of trauma and death from their lifetimes spent inside these prisons.

The Latter tend to focus heavily on the Old Horde's Heroes, while the Former tend to focus more on the New Horde's Heroes. The Latter tend to be Warlocks and Rogues, while the Former tend to be Shaman and Hunters.

The Shattered Hand Clan, from where all rogues are trained, was personally led by Kargath Bladefist (The Last Chieftain of the Clan) and traveled with Grommash Hellscream with the Underground in Stonard. Kargath died in Alterac, in the Frostwolf Village, an Old Orc with Kilrogg Deadeye before he could see the Freedom of the Orcish People realized. The Shattered Hand, unlike the Bleeding Hollow, survived past the death of its Chieftain, but like the Warsong, have yet to appoint a new Chieftain to the Clan.

[Daala]

Should note that not only was Orgrimmar not founded 18 years ago, Kalimdor's existence wasn't common knowledge to orcs yet.

[EnheilRas]

I believe that's why she made the post.

Orgrimmar is only four years old.

Don't worry, you're not the first.

[Tarlithion]

Somewhat reminiscent of all the people I know who say they were born in Dolanaar >_>

*cough*

[Fallacy]

I believe that's why she made the post.

Orgrimmar is only four years old.

Don't worry, you're not the first.

I actually think Orgrimmar's a little older than that, since it was established at about the same time that Arthas and Illidan were duking it out in Northrend, or some time during the events of TFT.

[Abric]

Manus got most of it right, except about Kargath and the Shattered Hand.

If you have a lot of orc history that is pre-WC3; then try to wag a little bit of until the expansion. A LOT of good source material will then be avaliable to you.

And visuals.

Oooo, the visuals.

*Cuts Manus with Kargath's hand sycthe*

[Vilmah]

Oi, I gotta fix Vilmah then. She's much younger than I thought, considering that she was born in Hammerfall.

Yay!

[Chingaso]

Slavery to the Lore is the death of imagination.

[Vilmah]

Well, I always figured Vilmah to be too young for leadership anyway. I preffer to play her as immature, especially since she discovered her explosive temper... ^^

[Niethan]

Niethan is about 17, so he was leaving home around the time of the battle of Hyjal...

What was going on in the EPL around then?

[EnheilRas]

No. Orgrimmar was started the moment The Warsong Clan began harvesting lumber. Why do you think they were cutting down trees?

The Orc TFT Campaign takes place simultaneously with the other campaigns in TFT. It's not set chronologically like the rest of WarCraft III.

Also, I did get it right about Kargath. Kargath was featured in WarCraft Adventures. You can literally see him chilling with Kilrogg, Grommash, and Orgrim in the Frostwolf Village. It's hard not to see him, his fucking arm in a 3 foot long scythe.

[Shadowspeak]

While were on this subject, where were Humans around 100 years before the battle at Hyjal?

[Shadowspeak]

While were on this subject, where were Humans around 100 years before the battle at Hyjal?

[EnheilRas]

they were in the Eastern Kingdoms?

It was the late 7th Century of Man when WarCraft began.

Meaning Arathor had set up the first Kingdom in the Highlands near 700 years ago

[Shadowspeak]

any really big events took place between then and the battle of Hyjal? (Other than the proceedings leading up of course)

[EnheilRas]

prolly..

Like.. the Elf-Troll Wars of the Amani Kingdom
The setting up of the Council of Tirisfal

yada yada yada

[Yichimet]

Slavery to the Lore is the death of imagination.

No it's not. A stable framework often gives you more opportunity for creativity, like the oulipo French writers, formal sonnet structure, etc. etc.

[EnheilRas]

three formal sonnet structures.

English (Shakespearian), Italian (Petrachian), and the infamous "Holy" Sonnet form.

bwuahaha. I've written fifteen of each, two of which have won awards.

[Chingaso]

Slavery to the Lore is the death of imagination.

No it's not. A stable framework often gives you more opportunity for creativity, like the oulipo French writers, formal sonnet structure, etc. etc.
How about, "not necessarily," or "it doesn't have to be," instead of the automatic gainsaying of, "no it's not?" :roll:

[Muatah]

Slavery to the Lore is the death of imagination.

No it's not. A stable framework often gives you more opportunity for creativity, like the oulipo French writers, formal sonnet structure, etc. etc.
How about, "not necessarily," or "it doesn't have to be," instead of the automatic gainsaying of, "no it's not?" :roll:


By the same token, how about "Slavery to the Lore can/might be the death of imagination?" :wink:

[Abric]

The lore is the lore. It is the history and the guideline that the game is.
Death of imagination? I can't agree with that.

To think that way, then we'd have ourselves a bunch of vampire hunters from the Federation who are on a quest from the Council of Jedi to go back into time to stop the Burning Legion from happening - then succeeding but are unable to have the people of Azeroth believe it so they jack them into the Matrix.

Imaginative? Sure... but stupid.

To stick to the lore, as Ashagga is trying to do - is to keep things believable but also setting it in something that everybody can share. To be able to give reference to the material at hand, then people can relate... and possibly join in on equal playing grounds.

Afterall, most would choose to play with an orc who wandered the Eastern Kingdoms, before Thrall picked him up and took him to Kalimdor to raise the city of Orgrimmar for the glory of his race... than some orc who mysteriously made his way across the sea during the First War to find himself stranded in the Barrens and picked up by Tauren, learning their language, and teaching them the ways of the warrior.

...

Imaginative? Sure. But, kind of lame. There's so much source material and a pretty good timeline to look - that you can still be extremely creative and have something original and believable.

[Chingaso]

OK, who here read my entire statement? I said slavery to the lore, not the lore itself.

Get it? Slavery = bad? Yesno?

Sheesh...

[Danyxandra]

Visuals are pretty crucial to me in order to keep timelines straight, especially since I have a really hard time keeping it all straight anyway. Anyone got a visual timeline of when these cities were created and when how long ago different events happened.? Having to sift through, re-sift through, and sift through again in written lore, especially as much as WoW has in order to just use it as a prop for a storyline, is, well , can be massive work. I soooo want a visual timeline bar and someone has just got to have one or a link to one somewhere.

[EnheilRas]

By the same token, how about "Slavery to the Lord can/might be the death of imagination?" :wink:

Hahahahaha

You win Typo of the Year


BWUAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[Chavie]

Visuals are pretty crucial to me in order to keep timelines straight, especially since I have a really hard time keeping it all straight anyway. Anyone got a visual timeline of when these cities were created and when how long ago different events happened.? Having to sift through, re-sift through, and sift through again in written lore, especially as much as WoW has in order to just use it as a prop for a storyline, is, well , can be massive work. I soooo want a visual timeline bar and someone has just got to have one or a link to one somewhere.

i agree seh.

[Abric]

http://www.blizzplanet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=468&sid=10a5843de700c53a5d98e65553ea3e7a

There are better out there, but that's just something I googled.

[Chavie]

http://www.blizzplanet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=468&sid=10a5843de700c53a5d98e65553ea3e7a

There are better out there, but that's just something I googled.

that is good for me! thank you!

[Danyxandra]

http://www.blizzplanet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=468&sid=10a5843de700c53a5d98e65553ea3e7a

There are better out there, but that's just something I googled.

The content at that linkie is worthy of its own post and sticky in this forum, me thinks. Like, copy paste it with a credits linkie into a thread. Thank you SO MUCH Abric. This is really helpful!!! Wish it included the part about the elves splitting into night elf/high elf and the fall of Quel'Thalas and such. Lots and lots of orc lore but not much on the elves. Still, very very helpful.

[Yichimet]

OK, who here read my entire statement? I said slavery to the lore, not the lore itself.

Get it? Slavery = bad? Yesno?

Sheesh...

Yeah, sorry Chingy. I didn't really read into your wording well enough. Like I said, it's only a framework to guide you. There's PLENTY of room for expansion on the lore.