Healing.....and its perks.... [Archive] - The Twisting Nether Gazette

Hifazat

05-31-2010, 02:03 PM

I have been running a tonne of random dungeons. Some have been great where I don't have to heal anybody save for the tank. Then there are some where I am just confused how I survived that entire mess. My three runs in HHOR have been just like that and my gear isn't that great.

But as a healer I have to keep everybody alive or make sure they are all alive by the end of the pull or the boss fight. But there are sometimes let people die because they are just stupid. If a hunter pulls aggro on a mob and refuses to FD the first time, its fine. The second time its annoying. The third time he dies if the tank doesn't pick him up.

I have very little patience for general inability to play ones class these days. It maybe arrogance or just a lack of patience but this game is so much easier than Vanilla. This isn't a 15 man Scholo or strat run. We aren't doing an Undead Strat run. This isn't BRD.

This game has become easier, that doesn't mean you shouldn't know what you are doing. The question arises is how long will you spend as a healer in an instance where one wanker plans on making sure its your job he or she lives regardless what he or she does.

This includes wankers that see bright glowly stuff in the ground and decide to go skinny dipping in it.

As you can see I had a few bad runs before this rant.

Villayna

05-31-2010, 02:09 PM

I hate pugging HHoR so much that I generally change to a lower gear set before I que randoms so I don't get stuck healing it.

Moknim

05-31-2010, 02:24 PM

I feel your pain.

But there is a difference between avoidable damage (standing in fire) and unavoidable damage (H.HoR is mostly unavoidable). If they are standing in fire, I let them die and put "Fire is Bad" in party chat. If its HoR - most people know it sucks to heal and as long as they aren't being stupid you just kinda have to put up with it.

HoR blows without a good tank.

Grainia

05-31-2010, 02:34 PM

There is nothing worse than a tank that doesn't listen. My saying 'Drinking' doesn't translate to 'Go ahead and pull the entire next room'.

Zultingo

05-31-2010, 02:38 PM

Swerto

05-31-2010, 03:34 PM

I carry groups with my undergeared holy paladin.

Svetlaena

05-31-2010, 04:21 PM

Someone stop me if I completely missed it, but, what are we supposed to discuss about it? What's the topic at hand? All I saw was a rant...

Bellsa

05-31-2010, 07:38 PM

Alphaeus

05-31-2010, 08:49 PM

There is nothing worse than a tank that doesn't listen. My saying 'Drinking' doesn't translate to 'Go ahead and pull the entire next room'.

OOM - Out of Mobs. Your healer is telling you to pull more mobs.

Grainia

05-31-2010, 08:52 PM

I so needed a laugh right now! Thanks!

Skaadvik

05-31-2010, 09:19 PM

If the dps is pulling aggro because the tank sucks or is going to slow, they've just become the new tank.

If they're pulling because they're retarded, there's a decent chance I won't even rez them. because I like being a dick like that.

I definitely pull extra shit when I think the tank is going too slow. nothing pains me more than healing an overgeared tank with nothing but holy shocks while he pulls two mobs at a time.

Lelenia

06-01-2010, 01:30 AM

Personally, I run with the "three strikes" rule myself. I can tell when a tank is a bad/undergeared/inexperienced tank...been there myself, noted the signs. I also know what it looks like when the warlock geared to the gills is spamming Shadowbolt Crits on a mob that only he cares about, and the tank has no hope of catching aggro after the 3rd crit. After the warlock has forced me to spam heals on him and let the tank take it in the face the first time, I ask politely to focus on tank target. Twice, I let him know that after that, he's on his own. If he dies...hope he likes the walk, or someone else has jumper cables.

Vyn

06-01-2010, 02:08 AM

From a deepsies standpoint...

Oh fuck it, I'm a healer's nightmare. Not because I'm bad and stand in the fire, or because I pull aggro off the tank. I misdirect the highest DPS that isn't me. Every pull.

I make them cry. The only thing that can hold aggro off that is a damn paladin, so I always get bored when I see palabro tanks.

Nymare

06-01-2010, 06:14 AM

...this game is so much easier than Vanilla. This isn't a 15 man Scholo or strat run. We aren't doing an Undead Strat run.

And maybe that's the problem? Admittedly, there is a point where, if your group is geared enough, you don't really have to think. At some point in BC, crowd control stopped even being necessary... I think around the time that volley actually started doing damage.

Having been ranged dps since the beginning of the game, I am as good to my tank as I can be. As a tank, 90% of the time, I would love a misdirected volley, but I am convinced hunters have no clue what misdirect even is outside of raiding. Tricks? Glorious. As a tank, I am unforgiving of dicketry otherwise, and having been a hunter for so long, I have since developed a profound hatred of hunters from the hunters I've pugged with. Huntering is not that hard guys! Really! Cross my heart and hope to fake-die!

As a druid healer, I think it's nearly impossible for people to die with me, no matter how bad things get. They're always getting some kind of healing. I can take rampant idiocy in stride on the druid, and I enjoy healing the chaos that is HHOR because I can.

As an undergeared paladin healer, there's slightly less tolerance. I never run out of mana, but I can only heal you so big and fast in so little gear. I've got some tricks up my sleeve, but for the most part, if things hit the fan, I'm spamming one button so it's nice when people like, oh, the clothies, know how to handle themselves when they see DOOM rushing hungrily at their pixelfaces. Shatter. Fade. Iceblock or Invis or Frost Nova or... Run to the tank, guys. Seriously. At least don't run from the healer. It happens, though. They don't even turn around and run, they walk backwards, getting healed and hit in the face until they're finally out of my range and they die, even if I find time to spam "OOR" or some horribly typoed and viciously profane thing in /p amidst the flashes and crittyshocks. WINNAR! This is usually some really smart person single targeting in an aoe scenario, and not even single targeting the tank's focus. As soon as I spend emblems on healy gear, though, that should all (with exception of the rare running from the group moments) be a thing of the past. One button domination. Though, since all that drops is DPS gear, I really should go ret. And then stop pretending I have a soul.

Rand_Shea

06-01-2010, 01:06 PM

Maybe I'm just not heartless enough, but even if the party is..less than clever, I still do my best to heal everyone equally. The role I am there to fill is the role of healer. My job is to keep everyone in the group alive. My job is not to judge the brain damaged hunter and then abandon him to death. I am not there to set a bunch of prissy "healer rules".

I'm just there to heal.

The only thing that really, really gets to me anymore is when a tank refuses to stop when I ask for a mana break. Of course, by that point his death isn't something I can prevent anymore. Oh well.

This. Very much this.

One of my mains is solely just a healer, whether it's for PvE or PvP... when I get on said character, I expect to heal and do nothing but healing unless I can do some dailies and smite some things to death.

I also play DPS classes. Currently I have one ranged, and two melee. I am currently only even adequately skilled in playing the ranged. Misdirect is my friend and I use it copiously... Pretty much whenever it's able to be used, it's being slapped on the tank followed by a volley or a multi-shot that will get as many mobs angry at THEM as possible.

My melee ones don't have that luxury. As it stands I'm still learning melee classes in general and how to not get lost in TEN BILLION TONS OF GLITTER AND SPARKLES AND SHINY SHINY SHINY MAGIC AOE WOWIES, while at the same time staying behind the mobs and within range to whack them with a weapon or two. Having played pretty much nothing but ranged and heals seriously for 1.5 expansions, it's not easy to figure everything out instantly.

Oh... and learning to tank? Good luck. Seems every group has your mindset that "If you're not good enough BY NOW, you're not WORTHY to be in MY presence, peasant!".

So, pardon me, oh God of Healers, if I happen to ever be in your groups and I make a few situational mistakes because I haven't practiced my class and their current spec enough. I'll be sure to erect a shrine in your name and douse it with mana potions while flogging myself for daring to not be perfect at playing a game.

But as someone who frequently plays a healer to another... get over yourself, because ultimately you're not the one charged with keeping the mobs under control, or making it so they're dead. As much as groups might depend on you, YOU depend more on your group. If you come across one that can't get their shit together and won't listen, then either kick the offending person out, or leave.

As for the HHoR instance... Specific Dungeon queu if you want to avoid it. Two less badges and a little less gold per dungeon isn't going to be the death of you.

Agnarr

06-01-2010, 01:16 PM

So, pardon me, oh God of Healers, if I happen to ever be in your groups and I make a few situational mistakes because I haven't practiced my class and their current spec enough.
If you're in a heroic, you should have.
It's like, if you haven't practiced turning left, then why the hell are you in Nascar? Get back to the drag strip.

Rand_Shea

06-01-2010, 01:20 PM

If you're in a heroic, you should have.
It's like, if you haven't practiced turning left, then why the hell are you in Nascar? Get back to the drag strip.

Erm... what? Is that a Zoolander reference or something? Because that's otherwise a really dumb analogy.

Agnarr

06-01-2010, 01:26 PM

Erm... what? Is that a Zoolander reference or something? Because that's otherwise a really dumb analogy.
Mostly it was a dig at Nascar, because that's all they do is turn left. But to explain it a bit more in depth, then I was stating that you should have practiced your class and spec more if you are running heroics. New drivers don't go straight to Nascar (to again reference my previous allusion), they practice in local races n' stuff first (non-heroic dungeons, heroics with friends where experimenting will be fine, etc.).

Moknim

06-01-2010, 01:29 PM

If you're in a heroic, you should have.

This.

If you don't understand your class by the time you are 80 enough to 1) not stand in fire, 2) let the tank get aggro, and 3) effectively DPS while watching your threat......then you have done something seriously wrong. Or you just don't care.

If the person is new (which is usually obvious) I help them along with the instance no matter what my role is. Calling things out for the tank, healer, or DPS isn't that big of a deal. But there is a big difference between "new" and "I-don't-care-I'm-going-to-mash-whatever-button-I-want-whenever-I-want-no-matter-what-you-say" (I'm looking at the warrior with mocking blow in his rotation, the hunter who keeps MD'ing his pet, the warlock who runs up and hellfire's before any AoE threat is established, etc. etc.).

I'm not a jerk, but I'm not healing stupidity either.

Gorvena

06-01-2010, 02:04 PM

Isn't it funny how aggro problems are DPS' fault unless the raid leader has decided that he hates the tank and then it's the tank's fault...

Swerto

06-01-2010, 02:06 PM

Mok, as a fury warrior I effectively pull aggro off undergeared tanks by white hitting, I end up having to literally wait ten seconds (the time it takes for a decent group to kill the tank) or do nothing.

I end up 'off tanking' (grabbing all adds the tank can't hold threat on. Read: all but one because they all suck apparently) most heroics, and healers usually just treat me like the tank since I have enough health and armor to tank all non ICC heroics.

If the tank is in Tier 9 or higher gear and not holding aggro: they suck, boot them from group. I can jump to my tank spec (which is mostly tier 9 gear) and hold aggro from an extremely impatient group of DPS because I have these wonderful things called 'taunts' to use. They let me grab aggro long enough to out threat even the most badass DPS, and as a warrior vigilance doesn't hurt. There is a reason I don't pull aggro in my raids while going all out with rogues tricks of the trading me at bloodlust/heroism.

Sometimes tanks just suck, and need to do better. Yes DPS need to l2wait two seconds for the tanks to start up their threat (warriors need to get thunderclap and shockwave out, paladins need to consecrate, druids need to swipe, DK's need to DnD, and spread diseases) but after that point a DPS shouldn't hold aggro for longer than the global cooldown after the tank's last ability. Addons like 'tauntmaster' make it an ungodly easy job too (Person who has aggro on any mob turns red, click that person and use taunt one, right click to use taunt two, etc.)

Moknim

06-01-2010, 02:13 PM

Mok, as a fury warrior I effectively pull aggro off undergeared tanks by white hitting, I end up having to literally wait ten seconds (the time it takes for a decent group to kill the tank) or do nothing.

This is an example of just how things roll these days - if you want to tank you are WAY behind on the gear curve to start, you aren't going to hold threat.

As a healer, I will heal dps in situations like that. I won't heal the warrior with mocking blow in their rotation (I use this example because it happened like 2 days ago).

TL: DR - I will heal gear discrepancies, I won't heal stupid.

Necroxis

06-01-2010, 02:13 PM

This.

If you don't understand your class by the time you are 80 enough to 1) not stand in fire, 2) let the tank get aggro, and 3) effectively DPS while watching your threat......then you have done something seriously wrong. Or you just don't care.

If the person is new (which is usually obvious) I help them along with the instance no matter what my role is. Calling things out for the tank, healer, or DPS isn't that big of a deal. But there is a big difference between "new" and "I-don't-care-I'm-going-to-mash-whatever-button-I-want-whenever-I-want-no-matter-what-you-say" (I'm looking at the warrior with mocking blow in his rotation, the hunter who keeps MD'ing his pet, the warlock who runs up and hellfire's before any AoE threat is established, etc. etc.).

I'm not a jerk, but I'm not healing stupidity either.

I think you're allowed a LITTLE leeway if you're played like Ret/Holy/Arms/Unholy/dps spec and you switch to tank spec and you're a bit rusty.

Saphiara

06-01-2010, 03:19 PM

You're allowed some leeway in technique. You're not allowed leeway when I'm going:

Smaashum: RIGHTEOUS FURY
Smaashum: RIGHTEOUS FURY
Smaashum: RIGHTEOUS FURY
Smaashum: RIGHTEOUS FURY
Smaashum: RIGHTEOUS FURY
Smaashum: RIGHTEOUS FURY
Smaashum: RIGHTEOUS FURY

...in chat and the tank can't figure out why he can't keep threat off me.

Necroxis

06-01-2010, 03:27 PM

Well yeah, I meant technique. Not like tanks standing in fire ect.

Grayslin

06-01-2010, 03:31 PM

You guys are all doing it wrong.

In our raids, you just pick one person and blame them for all problems that occur for the rest of the night. Everyone wins. (Well, except for the scapegoat, but they don't count because it was all their fault.)

Also, the scapegoat may or may not regularly be myself... >.>

Lisbet

06-01-2010, 03:37 PM

Haz. In HoR - do yourself a favor. Beacon the tank and heal the dps. Make sure you have Glyph of Holy Llight for the splash ;p

Now-a-days Heid just queues as tank and tanks in all his dps gear - except in the icc h 5mans. Then he puts on 2p t10 tanking gear. Even if he queues dps, he ends up tanking anyways, since all but the best geared tanks have problems holding agro. I end up having to ES/LHW/Riptide him anyways ;p.

Vyn

06-01-2010, 07:38 PM

Actually, I've found that, as a hunter, I can -really- help the tanks out (when I'm not being a dick to the other DPS). Misdirect and TotT can help a poorly-geared and somewhat mentally-impaired tank hold aggro, on slower fights.

And as DPS, again, it shouldn't be our job (unless the tank is poorly geared) to scale back our DPS in order to not pull aggro off the tank. If the tank's got similar gear to me, but can't hold aggro, that's because he's retarded.

But then again, I have my "retarded tank" buttons, so it's not like I die when I pull aggro.

Skaadvik

06-01-2010, 11:31 PM

in the situation swerto described, I would whisper him and say "congrats, you're the new tank."

Ashae

06-02-2010, 07:22 AM

"Bubbling purple aura! Oh hey! That's the color of a rejuvenation potion.. Hm... My health and mana go up when I'm in it, I bet,"
^Joke Quote
"Mages dont hav ice block stupid"
^Real Quote
"righteous fury is in the spec tree and i didnt get it"
^The same idea, but not exact words quote from the worst prot pally ever

Gorvena

06-02-2010, 08:46 AM

Last night we had to pug in some dps for Razorscale. One of them was a BoomChicken. He stood in fire. One of the healers told me, "Screw him, he dies."

Lailinarel

06-02-2010, 09:00 AM

Sometimes as an overgeared holydin I ask tanks to put on dps gears... I wanna actually do something other than refresh SS and top off the group before bosses...

But yeah, I'll usually ask people to not be stupid before I let them die. Not that it's difficult to keep em up, I just don't like stupid people.

Seeing as how I've heal/tanked heroics with 4 dps...

Moknim

06-02-2010, 11:03 AM

"righteous fury is in the spec tree and i didnt get it"
^The same idea, but not exact words quote from the worst prot pally ever

My favorite prot paladin quote (we are in H.FoS at the moment, my priest is healing as disc but just barely geared enough to do it):

Me "Tank, are you D capped?"
Tank "No but I use seal of light"
Me "How much D Rating do you have?"
Tank "400"
Me "So you actually have no additional D rating"
Tank "It hurts my DPS but I told you, I use seal of light"
Me "That doesn't make any sense"
Tank "Its to make me tank better"

What do you do with that kind of fail!

I will freely admit that I have no problem helping people through an instance, but first sign of you being a jerk/douche I let you die.

Agnarr

06-02-2010, 12:33 PM

What do you do with that kind of fail!
/kick and find a new tank

Oooor, I suppose you could explain that defense rating is a Good Thing™ because his piddly seal healing won't prevent him from getting critted for 40k.

Grayslin

06-02-2010, 12:44 PM

What do you do with that kind of fail!
Switch to a shadow spec. When he asks why you aren't healing, you can say "It hurts my dps, but its ok, I put fort and a bubble on you."

Vyn

06-02-2010, 03:34 PM

Switch to a shadow spec. When he asks why you aren't healing, you can say "It hurts my dps, but its ok, I put fort and a bubble on you."

I love you. Hahahahaha

Grainia

06-02-2010, 04:22 PM

Don't forget VE!

Moknim

06-02-2010, 04:55 PM

Switch to a shadow spec. When he asks why you aren't healing, you can say "It hurts my dps, but its ok, I put fort and a bubble on you."

Priceless.

I actually had a way overgeared S.Priest heal my moderately geared bear through a couple of heroics. He also topped DPS. It went really fast.

Domni

06-02-2010, 05:27 PM

I sometimes switch to my PvP spec and try to smite outdps the lowest DPS in the group. I get pretty happy if I break 2k.

In general, I'll heal even most stupidity because it will take too much time to stand there and rez them afterward. Outright rude people do tend to die sudden deaths or hover at 5% health for the entirety of the instance.

I do have limits though. Fury Warrior queued as tank in H. UP. After the second major pull, I was alive...he was barely alive...and everyone else was dead. He said he didn't think it would actually be that bad. A few minutes of me telling him what a disgrace he was and he quietly bowed out. I replaced him with a sleepy Emmet for the rest of the instance.

Swerto

06-02-2010, 05:42 PM

I remember switching to arms spec putting on my sword and board and tanking HoR because the tank sucked at thunderclapping.

The 1k resil on my armor, and my 35k life made it possible.

Defense is for fags.

Sejarki

06-02-2010, 08:04 PM

And as DPS, again, it shouldn't be our job (unless the tank is poorly geared) to scale back our DPS in order to not pull aggro off the tank.

A DPS's job is to do as much DPS as possible without pulling off of the tank. Unless being dead is good for your DPS.

Vyn

06-02-2010, 09:26 PM

A DPS's job is to do as much DPS as possible without pulling off of the tank. Unless being dead is good for your DPS.

I'm a night elf hunter. The mobs couldn't kill me if they tried.

Saphiara

06-02-2010, 09:38 PM

I'm a night elf hunter. The mobs couldn't kill me if they tried.

Congratulations. You selfishly watch the DPS charts instead of the aggro list and end up ripping threat off the tank, then survive selfishly by removing yourself from the aggro list. Guess who that mob whose threat you just dropped is headed towards next? If you say the tank, you're wrong.

Swerto

06-02-2010, 10:39 PM

Congratulations. You selfishly watch the DPS charts instead of the aggro list and end up ripping threat off the tank, then survive selfishly by removing yourself from the aggro list. Guess who that mob whose threat you just dropped is headed towards next? If you say the tank, you're wrong.
It should if the tank has done anything to attempt and try to remove the DPS from the top of the aggro list, so any tank who is intelligent or skilled at all.

Stop being bad.

Lailinarel

06-03-2010, 12:45 PM

I can do this because I'm pro.

That's not a good way to do it.

You're bad, don't be bad.

*Yawn*

Derailed X posts ago.

Everything is stupid.

(See where I'm goin with this?)

Ashae

06-04-2010, 12:01 PM

Having a shadow spec for your priest when you have an awesome tank is always a good thing. Vampiric Embrace should keep him topped off.. And you still have all the spell power and abilities you need to do yours heals. Win.

Lisbet

06-05-2010, 09:46 AM

....okay what the hell is this tread about?

Hif I didn't realise you played a holy priest.

A holy priest's job is to run out of mana. Stack more Int(aka, only enough sp/spir gems to satisfy your meta. Other then that, spirit gems are BAD. Spell power, or SP/int. Also, moar haste peices if you can get your hands on it - you don't need more then 25-30% crit.) You'll find yourself going oom less with a bigger mana pool. Also apply liberal use of renew and pom. ;p

Ashae

06-06-2010, 04:19 AM

Svetlaena

06-06-2010, 05:12 AM

*Lols at Saphiara taking Vyn's statement seriously*

Really, it's Vyn. Do people still need to be reminded not to do this?

I tend to see really bad groups as a challenge (unless I'm not having a good day). I try to see if I can make it through, even if the tank is a prot pally who thinks 30 points in ret and SP gear is good for tanking, until it's been proven that it's downright beyond my ability (or my gear's).

I've also been blamed for bad things happening to groups that are the tank's fault, blatantly, like not being Def capped, just because through some miracle their special friend was able to heal them through it fine.

Good or bad treatment, good or bad group, I try to get things done with minimal nonsense, if possible.

Agnarr

06-06-2010, 06:35 AM

I've also been blamed for bad things happening to groups that are the tank's fault, blatantly, like not being Def capped, just because through some miracle their special friend was able to heal them through it fine.
Ample use of renews. Except at the beginning before the pull. That's just bad.

Lisbet

06-06-2010, 07:40 AM

I say disc wins because of the mana issue, y'know. Plus they heal pretty damn well and have the shield sexiness. You're about to get 1-hitted by an attack? No problem! *Power Word: Shield* There ya go.

I don't like disc - Sure shields are nice, but there's not enough buttons when you need to actually HEAL someone :(

I always feel like I'm in oshit mode when I'm disc and get something with heavy aoe. Sure I can bubble you, but that only absorbs so much, and then I feel like I'm scrambling to find the right buttons fast enough to heal you.

I'd rather have a powerful renew and coh then uber bubbles any day.

Domni

06-06-2010, 12:28 PM

Aw! I remember that I felt the same panic when I switched from holy to disc (admittedly, it was a long time ago so the trauma has faded). I feel the same way whenever I try to go holy now. Healing a heroic suddenly feels frightening again because I'm not sure which button is best for what.

By now, I've accepted that I'm too set in my ways and I make a terrible holy priest.

The playstyles are simply different. It takes some time and a change in mindset to adjust to it. Disc has strong heals, but it works a little differently than Holy. Much of it is indirect, so you don't immediately "see" the heals. Both are quite powerful when played to their strengths. And equally awful when the player is uncertain.

Disc might work best for me, but I love my holy priests in raids too. <3 Fhoyle.