Leveling a tank...

[Tillna]

So, I got a level 75 prot spec warrior.

for grouping and soloing..should I focus on DEf or Stam...?

Any advice for tanking at this level?

[Rethius]

defense > stamina

Stam is important, but people what to see their tank defense capped more than anything.

Spam heroic strike and thunderclap. . . Cleave and shockwave isn't a bad idea either.

Challenging shout if things get dicey.

[Sejarki]

defense > stamina

Stam is important, but people what to see their tank defense capped more than anything.

Spam heroic strike and thunderclap. . . Cleave and shockwave isn't a bad idea either.

Challenging shout if things get dicey.

Issue here of course is pre-80 the defense cap is going to vary depending on the instance and the level of the boss you're fighting.

I'd still probably go for defense though, assuming you have very little at the moment. Stacking stamina is something to worry about once you're defense capped.

[Agnarr]

I'd have to log in and check, but the defense cap is 5.6% less chance to be crit (540 defense at 80). So if your defense shows that for whatever level you're at, you won't be crit by things 3 levels higher than you (which if you're trying to tank something 4+ levels higher than you, you're gonna get smeared unless you've got awesome party members).
Once you get that magic number, then worry about stamina.

1% chance to be crit isn't much, until you get crit and turned to ash.

For tanking solo things, thunderclap once to get the debuff on it, then refresh as needed. Same with the weakening shout (I forget what its called). Spam revenge and shield bash/slam (not the spell interrupting one, the damage one), use shield block if you feel like it (or the boss is emoting some sort of strong attack coming up). Throw in heroic strikes to burn rage (as you'll be mostly topped off all the time). Throw in a shockwave when you can.

For tanking multiple things, thunderclap every chance you get. Shockwave every chance you get; get good at aiming it and positioning the baddies. Demoralizing shout in between. Tab devastate. See who pulls aggro first and put vigilance on them (I usually do a melee class without threat reduction abilities as melee will pull aggro easier than ranged considering equivalent damage, like a DK. If a rogue pulls aggro its a bad rogue, or a truly horrible tank. Feint is there for a reason, fuckers). If you're taking a lot of damage so you're getting healed a lot, might want to vigi the healer instead.

Use sunscreen.

[Broxigan]

535 Def for Heroics
540 for Raids

Once you hit that, stam it up.

[Taknar]

See who pulls aggro first and put vigilance on them (I usually do a melee class without threat reduction abilities as melee will pull aggro easier than ranged considering equivalent damage, like a DK. If a rogue pulls aggro its a bad rogue, or a truly horrible tank. Feint is there for a reason, fuckers). If you're taking a lot of damage so you're getting healed a lot, might want to vigi the healer instead.

Addendum: If your healer enjoys pre-healing, give them vigi. This is especially true for any fight where adds pop up in the middle. The healing will catch aggro before you do.

[Swerto]

defense til you're 5%, then stamina/str.

[Okhu]

535 Def for Heroics
540 for Raids

Once you hit that, stam it up.

Broxigan said it much better.

Also, prior to raids. A couple pieces from rep vendors you'll want, chestpiece and boots and cloak from the accord are all really great starting pieces.

[Akuje]

When you are levling, Stam is slightly more important then avoidance. Get the Cobalt gear and wear it untill you can wear the saronite gear. You'll be fine. My 76 warrior is still mostly in the low 70 crafted tank gear.

[Agnarr]

Broxigan said it much better.
Except that has nothing to do with being level 75.

[Swerto]

That's why I said 5%, 540 is 5% at 80.

[Broxigan]

Except that has nothing to do with being level 75.

75, really, just stam it up. But it doesn't hurt to get as much Defense as possible at 75. Makes things a little easier. Hell, I tanked regular instances in PVP gear on my paladin with no defense at all. It varies on the healer.

[Villayna]

75, really, just stam it up. But it doesn't hurt to get as much Defense as possible at 75. Makes things a little easier. Hell, I tanked regular instances in PVP gear on my paladin with no defense at all. It varies on the healer.

please don't listen to Brox.

Having done the 70's instances with both healer and a tank, you aren't doing your party any good without an actual tank spec and tank gear. Can it be done without, sure, just like pugs can be done with idiots who don't know how to dps and healers who are dps spec'd. It *can* be done, but don't be that guy.

Akuje is right on for gear. The cobalt/saronite sets have the right amount of defense and doesn't cost *that* much to make. If you are doing a fair amount of instances, you'll pick up blues along the way that will be better than the cobalt/saronite. Trade out as you get them.

Find some good warrior tanking macro's to make your keybindings less chaotic. If nothing else, have one that's just

/cast devastate
/cast !heroic strike

so you don't have to think about using your rage burn

[Akuje]

please don't listen to Brox.


Akuje is right on for gear. The cobalt/saronite sets have the right amount of defense and doesn't cost *that* much to make. If you are doing a fair amount of instances, you'll pick up blues along the way that will be better than the cobalt/saronite. Trade out as you get them.

Damn right i am, seeing as Im on prot warrior number 3.... and the sense that makes doesn't exist..

[Zethrin]

please don't listen to Brox.

Having done the 70's instances with both healer and a tank, you aren't doing your party any good without an actual tank spec and tank gear. Can it be done without, sure, just like pugs can be done with idiots who don't know how to dps and healers who are dps spec'd. It *can* be done, but don't be that guy.



This reminds me of the time I tanked Blood Furnace around 60 something while specced Ret AND with a Shadow Priest healer (it was a desperation PUG before DKs came out and reduced the tank imbalance). Fun times... well, except for all the wipes... but we finished the freaking instance somehow (lots of crowd control was key), albeit with only one party member left standing after the final boss...

Off-spec healing though is much easier than off-spec tanking. I remember being a passable healer in non-heroic Nexus runs since I still had my Tier 4 Holy gear. However I once tried off-spec tanking Utgarde Keep, and we couldn't get past the second boss (though if I remember there was also lag issues on that run).

Note that this was all before dual specs were invented, and depended heavily on having complete sets of gear specifically for tanking and/or healing. In this day and age, I'd think that there should be no reason to need to off-spec anything past maybe 60. If I remember, the biggest deal was not being as defense capped as real tanks, and lacking important threat generating abilities (basically off-speccing was playing with a handicap, which reminds me of times when a warrior friend of mine in Tier 5/6 would tank and take some pulls with a two-hander in berzerker just to keep things interesting in heroics).

In any case, I'll echo the rule of defense cap first, then stamina. Defense cap prevents crits, which is like stamina, but better, because it reduces and smoothes out the spikes in damage and allows your healer to have an easier all around time keeping you alive. A constant stream of low to moderate damage is much easier to heal than sudden bursts where a big chunk of your health bar disappears. Stam is the second most important thing, but most gear with def rating usually has lots of stam anyway.

Keep in mind I've never been prot spec nor seriously tanked anything endgame, so I likely have no idea what I'm talking about compared to real tanks.

[Agnarr]

I suppose I shouldn't bring up when I was on my old server tanking at 60 without a tank spec nor much in the way of tank gear with little difficulty. Didn't even know what a defense cap was back then. I did have the "15 needed" prot points, though (back when 5 pts went to extra armor, 5 points went to block, and 5 went to extra threat).

BWL was serious business.

[Broxigan]

I suppose I shouldn't bring up when I was on my old server tanking at 60 without a tank spec nor much in the way of tank gear with little difficulty. Didn't even know what a defense cap was back then. I did have the "15 needed" prot points, though (back when 5 pts went to extra armor, 5 points went to block, and 5 went to extra threat).

BWL was serious business.

Same here pretty much.

The most gear I had at one point was the Dungeon .5 sets. 'Course, I will never forget finally breaking 7 or 8k health back in the good old days. Nor will I forget doing all of Scholomance with a two Mages, a Warlock and a Shadow Priest only getting heals from Vamp Touch.

Anyway, my statement above still stands, if you are playing with people who know how to play. The PVP gear in a tanking spec thing was more of an accident on my end [Forgot to switch out all the gear and we just did it for shits and giggles] and really, it ended up fine. Yes, it would have been easier with me in my tanking gear, but no one died, we cleared the place and it was no issue.

Now, Pugging on the other hand, leveling up, it really just varies. DK tanking that I have healed in the lower to mid 70s has been easy as balls when they don't have much more HP than I do as a Shaman healer. A warrior is a bit more tough, so I would expect them to have more defense.

Anyway, really, just Defense and Stam it up and once you hit 80, aim for Defense cap then grab your stam. I would recommend doing Heroics with FRIENDS at max def cap and around 24k health.

If you are going to pug Heroics with those stats, you will get laughed at because of the ridiculously high standards people have now-a-days for tanks in heroics. It is damn near impossible to get a heroic PUG together on my tank because I haven't managed to break 30k health. Whereas, 6 months ago I was tanking heroics daily. A couple a day. With no issues.

Edit: Forgot to add: srs bsns.

[Raziel]

I tanked LBRS as a Shaman, with another Shaman healing me, with two rogues and a hunter once. I was elemental too.

Just used earthshocks and rock weapon enhancements.
They don't do that anymore.

Things change.

They don't sleep on the beach.

[Gorvena]

Spam heroic strike and thunderclap. . . Cleave and shockwave isn't a bad idea either.
No.

Heroic strike is a rage waste.

Spam shield slam (greatest threat generator), devastate and revenge whenever it is up. Keep thunderclap up. But take heroic strike completely off of your tanking bar. It is that big a waste.

Also make sure your spec includes deep wounds. In the mid 70s you need to generate maximum threat since a lot of your groups will include at least one 80.

[Villayna]

heroic strike is off the global cooldown, so it's extra threat you can be pumping out in addition to shield slam and devastate, and rage usually isn't a problem if you aren't overgeared for the encounter. If you are running out of rage, then sure, skip it for that fight.

[Agnarr]

Heroic Strike is awesome. I've never been rage-starved unless I'm tanking level 70 dungeons on normal. Of course, I also have the glyph that makes it free after a revenge, so I have a /castsequence Revenge, Heroic Strike macro with whatever the cooldown is for revenge as the reset.


I tanked LBRS as a Shaman, with another Shaman healing me, with two rogues and a hunter once. I was elemental too.

Just used earthshocks and rock weapon enhancements.
They don't do that anymore.

Things change.

They don't sleep on the beach.

I've had a hunter's pet tank LBRS back when 60 was the limit. I think we only wiped once.

[Akuje]

No.

Heroic strike is a rage waste.

Spam shield slam (greatest threat generator), devastate and revenge whenever it is up. Keep thunderclap up. But take heroic strike completely off of your tanking bar. It is that big a waste.

Also make sure your spec includes deep wounds. In the mid 70s you need to generate maximum threat since a lot of your groups will include at least one 80.

Not the best advice.
Shield slam -> Revenge -> Concussion Blow -> Shockwave -> Devastate
Is your "rotation priority" and when you have spare rage que Heroic Strike always. Warriors also want a fast weapon so you can spam heroic strike faster.

A very good paladin tank used to tell me to stop bitching when I had a really good tanking weapon with a 2.6 weapon speed, way too slow for a warrior, you want the 1.X second weapons, it means faster Heroic Strike spam, when mixed with your above rotation=most threat.



And for advice, your AoE tanking should be this/
Shockwave -> Thunderclap -> Cleave + Shield Slam (if using glyph of shield block, which you should be) -> tab targeting anyother ability + cleave

And if you are off tank,
Thunderclap + Demo Shout + Commanding Shout -> Devastate until five sunders -> normal main tank rotation until debuffs drop, then repeat sequence


Just because I play a chicken now, doesn't mean I forgot how to warrior, like I said I've got prot warrior number 3 sitting at level 76 waiting for the wife to want to play more.

[Gorvena]

Shield slam -> Revenge -> Concussion Blow -> Shockwave -> Devastate.
Two (or possibly three) stuns in a row? Take rage pots then.

Just because I am raiding a mage doesn't mean I forgot how to warrior either.

Then again, I know that Akuje is basing his advice on personal experience, as am I. So experiment and find what works best for you.

[Agnarr]

What bosses get stunned?

Though as I think more about it, that's quite likely just the boss skill cycle. With trash you can pretty much do whatever so long as you keep them busy on you.

[Gorvena]

I didn't realize we were only referring to bosses...although there are some in 5-mans that do.

And what good is CB without the stun? Apart from its minimal damage?

[Agnarr]

Minimal? Its one of the highest single target damage attacks you've got. Third only to revenge and shield slam (with a good amount of +block value items) probably.

[Gorvena]

Hmm, I'll have to run some logs. Never noticed it doing much of anything during boss fights. Then again I've concentrated on shield slam ever since it got buffed.

[Akuje]

See, I used to think "Conc blow is useless" then I had some threat issues and added it to my rotation, it's a TON of stinking threat, use it every time it's off cool-down.

And this is the trash/aoe tank rotation I had just posted =D



And for advice, your AoE tanking should be this/
Shockwave -> Thunderclap -> Cleave + Shield Slam (if using glyph of shield block, which you should be) -> tab targeting anyother ability + cleave

[Lailinarel]

Priority != Cast order

Ie Shield slam, Revenge, (oh look sword and board procced off my Heroic strike) so Shield slam again, then Shockwave. Revenge should come up right around then, so Revenge, then Shield Slam again, then conc blow. Revenge, SS, etc etc etc...

Thing with prioritizing your skills is that you have to be aware of your procs and CD's, if you've been tanking long enough you kinda get a feel for it, at the same time pre devastate buff Thunderclap was actually higher single target tps than it, and devastate was your lowest threat tanking skill, making it only useful for keeping up sunder pretty much. (Since in a 3 attack static rotation without mixing anything up at all you could SS, Revenge, TC till the cows come home)


All that said, back to the OP topic. Yeah, defense capping is nice, even if you aren't completely capped for your level you should be getting -some- defense. When I hit 80 (About a week after wrath came out) I kept most of my 70 tanking gear and did heroics in it. I was crittable if the bosses could hit me. (I had a 1500 BV set with about 35% to block luls) If I got low, hitting shield block with my lavanthors talisman would shoot me up to over 4k BV and 135% to block so I was effectively immune to melee damage for the duration. Of course, saying that makes me sad because of the shield slam bv limit for damage they added... No more 15k Shield slam openers on bosses to engrave my face onto his tombstone...