Cataclysm and World PvP

[Cessily]

I was discussing this with my guild mates the other day.

WoW Vanilla areas, nowdays, are the only areas in which you can expect any kind of decent world pvp. The reason for this is the lack of flying mounts. Come Cataclysm this will change, and every area of the world will see flying mounts, and their consequences to World PvP.

Am I the only one who dreads this day? With those mounts' poor mechanics on pvp, and being extremely more valuable/safe to some classes than others, I wonder... where is our pvp going to?

[Lysimachus]

It shall be an evolution, and we shall learn to (seriously) world PvP with them, in a different manner than ever before.

It's really as simple as that, I'd say.

I mean, in modern day warfare, we don't disregard flying attacks, do we? xD

[Rethius]

As my prot warrior Rethius, I have kept people in stunlock on their flying mounts long enough to kill them before they could fly away.

And should they trinket or something then they'll auto dismount. Kek.


Anyway, I doubt blizzard WONT change some things with this in mind. . . Exactly what? I dunno. . .

[Okhu]

Tenj will be able to get everyone EVERYWHERE.

[Xiphus]

If they start implementing anti-air measures and start encouraging PVP anytime and anywhere and undo the crap they dole out for PVP, I might just consider returning. But I believe Blizzard will still set aside controlled, closed environments as PVP hotspots and the whole flying mount thing isn't going to change much.

[Yatokth]

Honestly I have had some great World PvP in Northrend (mostly in Grizzly Hills) it's just that most of the juicy targets (major cities) are in the Old World.

Imagine an air strike into Stormwind or Orgrimmar. Badass? I think so.

Eliminating flying mounts will eliminate the following:

1 - Corpse camping, something anyone with a brain could get out of anyway.
2 - Repeated killing of someone in the area.
3 - The commitment you make going somewhere and being able to defend yourself to assert dominance. See: Isle of Quel'Danas.

HOWEVER.

Cataclysm also adds AAAALL the following to World PvP:

1 - Versatility of attack. Cities and towns can now be assaulted via the air, rooftops, etc...
2 - Presence of high levels in same continent as low levels. Some 80 might be flying over, swoop down and gank some bitch in the Wetlands, get cocky and camp (and/or be flying to an obvious trackable high level zone) and then have another dude get on his 80, so the original guy calls his friends, who call their friends, which makes the opposition call THEIR friends - shazam world pvp.
3 - Resource war! Imagine ganking a mining node in the mountains between the Barrens and Mulgore on some unsuspecting bitch on their nether drake.
3 - Tol Barad area, as a counter to Quel'Danas, it will probably allow flying when it's not in the WG-style battle, but the presence of so many people will make a hotspot anyways - I mean come on, before the Argent Tournament, Dun Niffelem was a WAR ZONE, and it had fliers.

Agreed, it is easier to pussy out once Cataclysm comes, but eh, I still think World PvP will be strong as long as players go out and do it.

Although I would not argue if Blizz decided to give more classes dismount abilities/knockbacks. Do want.

[Irontoe]

I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, world PvP as we know it will be gone. On the other hand, enemy territory will become extremely accessible, and I think we can expect to see MORE PvP in capital cities and other parts of the old world because of the ease of travel. Think of it this way: Ironforge is 5 minutes away from Undercity on a 280% flyer.

I'll bet anything that flying is turned off in capitals, much like Dalaran. If that is the case, then all this change does is make PvP more focused and frequent. I mean, I hate to break it to you, but "world PvP" is pretty much theoretical in this game; it only occurs on a large scale when one or both sides plan it for its own sake. There's nothing to fight over in the old world, so making PvP fights easier to start in random zones can only be a net benefit.

What will REALLY change world PvP is Southshore getting surprise sex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape) from the Royal Apothecary Society.

[Taknar]

My only addition to the feelings of Yat above are that Tailoring nets should dismount people, so I have more reason to make them.

That is all.

Ps: If they already dismount people, I'm an idiot and will make 4 stacks to carry at all times asap.

[Rethius]

My only addition to the feelings of Yat above are that Tailoring nets should dismount people, so I have more reason to make them.

That is all.

Ps: If they already dismount people, I'm an idiot and will make 4 stacks to carry at all times asap.

Even if... Those things are still badass imo.

I feel like friggan Boba Fett when I net someone.

THE BOUNTAAAY HUNTAAAAHH!

Edit: Going in my avy, NAO!

Edit: Now to reroll tailoring, brb.

Edit: DWARF BOBA, YES WE CAN.
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Mxcnmoses/bobafett2.jpg

[Kyrion]

/cancelaura flight form
/typhoon

[Lysimachus]

I'm not sure how I feel about knockback effects including dismount. I don't think it ought dismount the other player.

[Irontoe]

I'm not sure how I feel about knockback effects including dismount. I don't think it ought dismount the other player.

There NEEDS to be a way to force people into combat on a PvP server. Every class should have a way to dismount enemy players.

[Lysimachus]

There NEEDS to be a way to force people into combat on a PvP server. Every class should have a way to dismount enemy players.

I suppose I don't disagree with that, it more often than not is just abused by the (THREE ONLY) classes that have it.

Which I feel defeats the "need" portion on Blizzard's opinion, then everyone WOULD have a way, right?

[Skallagar]

I just see people too willing to pussy out in this game, to be honest. I'd be in favor of some dismounting abilities, or even some small form of aerial combat.

[Ryoku]

Although I would not argue if Blizz decided to give more classes dismount abilities/knockbacks. Do want.

Very much agree, but if say, every class had some form of dismount ability (or even just more classes), I'd think that Engineers should be able to put a parachute on everybody's cloak (and maybe also have it not remove the cloak's actual enchant).

Or hell, maybe engineers could be able to make parachutes with charges that they can sell on the auction house that people can put on their gear (while keeping the permanent cloak for themselves). Engineers have a means of making profit on a PvP server, and regular joes get a chance to fight it out when some heroic geared jackass on a Violet Proto Drake (Holiday achievements = worst excuse to give a 310% mount ever) comes and decides to aerially gank them.

[Taknar]

If they do put in specific dismounting abilities, they need to be smart about it. For example, make them a) only usable on the ground (a.k.a cast time) b) give them a debuff such that if they do get dismounted, they parachute to safety

[Yatokth]

Agreed, if more dismounts are added, slow fall should be more accessible.

[Ryoku]

I'm sorry for the double post, but wheras my above post was more broadening on what Yat had said, I would also like to keep it seperated from my opinion on the actual topic.

Yes, there will be some aspects of old-world PvP that will be neutered. Defensive chokes, and high ground chokes are matters of these.

However, although it's hindering the power of choke positions, the field has been opened up for a whole new array of tactics, the forefront being the encouragement of various flanking meneuvers.

Punk-asses holding narrow canyons keeping you choked out? have a group of your men fall back, mount up, and circle around to catch your enemy from their back (which just so happens to be the place they like to keep their healers), and looking at the other side, the defensive team could have a swift-flying boomkin engineer (cough) patrol the skies waiting to punt the group trying to flank.

Or, using Yat's example, if you decide to take to a roof while engaging an enemy town, it brings more reason to bring an elemental shaman / fire mage / boomkin with you so that when people start flying up to try and take you out, you can just punt them back, or if looked at from the other end, you could have an elemental shaman kamikaze into the group on the roof, and boot them all to the ground, where they are both scattered, and vulnerable.

Really, seeing it as being the death of world PvP is just silly in my opinion. Death of annoying, hard-to-escape camping? Yes. But really, I think that as long as PvP servers exist in WoW, world PvP will remain alive and well.

EDIT: I will keep the full of the text to maintain my point, however this isn't litterally a double post seeing as Yat and Taknar obviously have nothing better to do than lurk these forums. This is more of a veer off the topic of giving more classes dismounts, and a focus on the original topic at hand. :p

[Broxigan]

Agreed, if more dismounts are added, slow fall should be more accessible.

Engineering is accessible to everyone. :D

[Ryoku]

Engineering is accessible to everyone. :D

It is, but if everyone took up engineering for fear of gank, it would not only cause most people to be able to keep only one real primary profession, it would also cause the engineering profession to become bland, and meaningless.

The thing that makes engineering fun is that despite a gain in popularity with the introduction of engineering enchants in WotLK, it is still a fairly unpopular profession. It's a money sink, and in the end it doesn't give you the raw stats / profit you would get from other professions. But what it does give you is more tools to customize the way you play your class so that it is DIFFERENT from the people who go for raw stats.

You're weaker, and poorer than the rest, but you also have the oppourtunity to do amazing things.

[Yatokth]

Engineering is accessible to everyone. :D

Until it becomes a secondary profession this is not an acceptable solution. And we're already getting archaeology so don't cross your fingers. XD

BoE Flexweave Underlays would really be all that's needed. I know I would get one, even if I lost some agility or something.

Would also give engineers something more marketable.

[Broxigan]

You're weaker, and poorer than the rest, but you also have the oppourtunity to do amazing things.

Like blowing yourself up and getting an HK in the middle of some pvp. I kid you not. I wish I had grabbed the screen of that.

Also, I know Engineering isn't the answer, I was just bullshitting. XD

[Taknar]

Until it becomes a secondary profession this is not an acceptable solution. And we're already getting archaeology so don't cross your fingers. XD

BoE Flexweave Underlays would really be all that's needed. I know I would get one, even if I lost some agility or something.

Would also give engineers something more marketable.

No. Not this at all. That'd be one thing for BGs or Arena where you know what you are walking around with, but imagine if you had to give up your high-end enchants to safely walk out of a city.

[Yatokth]

No. Not this at all. That'd be one thing for BGs or Arena where you know what you are walking around with, but imagine if you had to give up your high-end enchants to safely walk out of a city.

Actually, Flexweave Underlay is better than the current best melee cloak enchant - if they made 85 variants with stats for each class, it'd be completely viable.

Due to stat condensation, this'd be easy.

Str Parachute Cloak enchant
Agi Parachute Cloak enchant
Int Parachute Cloak enchant

GG.

[Ryoku]

No. Not this at all. That'd be one thing for BGs or Arena where you know what you are walking around with, but imagine if you had to give up your high-end enchants to safely walk out of a city.

High end enchants? Flexweave Underlay gives you 23 agility, and Springy Arachnoweave gives you 27 spellpower.

I know Thalarios actually put a springy arachnoweave on his arena cloak because he felt that the 27 spellpower was actually an upgrade compared to 15 haste and 25 SPen.

However, considering the power of the tailoring cloak embroideries, I can see where you might have an arguement.

[Taknar]

High end enchants? Flexweave Underlay gives you 23 agility, and Springy Arachnoweave gives you 27 spellpower.

I know Thalarios actually put a springy arachnoweave on his arena cloak because he felt that the 27 spellpower was actually an upgrade compared to 15 haste and 25 SPen.

However, considering the power of the tailoring cloak embroideries, I can see where you might have an arguement.

Yes, sorry. That's what I was referring to. I get 290 spell power near constantly from that thing.

If it isn't far fetched to give you parachutes in Dalaran, Wintergrasp, and Isle of Conquest when you didn't equip one in the first place, I don't see why they need to create it as an item in the first place other than to limit them. The parachutes as is would still work great for launching off cliffs, or when you are higher than x feet off the ground. (I would imagine that parachutes from dismounting would only last a few seconds to keep some threat in flying away.)

[Yatokth]

Yes, sorry. That's what I was referring to. I get 290 spell power near constantly from that thing.

If it isn't far fetched to give you parachutes in Dalaran, Wintergrasp, and Isle of Conquest when you didn't equip one in the first place, I don't see why they need to create it as an item in the first place other than to limit them. The parachutes as is would still work great for launching off cliffs, or when you are higher than x feet off the ground. (I would imagine that parachutes from dismounting would only last a few seconds to keep some threat in flying away.)

They could add "Parachute Pack" to the Flying Trainer for Azeroth allowing you to have a 3 min CD (or something) 15 second parachute that you could activate from your mount, or within like 5 seconds of being knocked off.

[Ryoku]

Yes, sorry. That's what I was referring to. I get 290 spell power near constantly from that thing.

If it isn't far fetched to give you parachutes in Dalaran, Wintergrasp, and Isle of Conquest when you didn't equip one in the first place, I don't see why they need to create it as an item in the first place other than to limit them. The parachutes as is would still work great for launching off cliffs, or when you are higher than x feet off the ground. (I would imagine that parachutes from dismounting would only last a few seconds to keep some threat in flying away.)

This is why I think that for non-engineers (or engineer-tailors? o.O) they should be consumables that you either keep with you or put on your cloak.

I know that as a non-engineer I wouldn't ever be caught out in the world without at least a stack of 10 of those at all times.

It's called a money sink, and when it isn't too uncommon for some people to have 40k+ gold (hell, I know a guy who has 2 alts with maxed gold), it's something we need more of in this game.

[Yatokth]

Or that, consumables would be acceptable as well, thus giving engis the advantage of saving a bunch of gold by having an enchant.

[Swerto]

Parachute cloaks are an enchant for a reason, they give you a shit ton of agility or intellect depending on which one you use.

[Yatokth]

Parachute cloaks are an enchant for a reason, they give you a shit ton of agility or intellect depending on which one you use.

You're like eight posts late bro.

[Ryoku]

Parachute cloaks are an enchant for a reason, they give you a shit ton of agility or intellect depending on which one you use.

Learn to post in a timely manner, dawg

[Rethius]

Until it becomes a secondary profession this is not an acceptable solution. And we're already getting archaeology so don't cross your fingers. XD

BoE Flexweave Underlays would really be all that's needed. I know I would get one, even if I lost some agility or something.

Would also give engineers something more marketable.

Imo, engineering is fine where it is... Nearly OP. But not quite.

Giving them crap to market is too much.

[Ryoku]

Imo, engineering is fine where it is... Nearly OP. But not quite.

Giving them crap to market is too much.

Go ask Thalarios how much money he has on him.

Go ahead. Ask him.

EDIT: Then ask him how much of that money he made from engineering.

Then go ask him how his Mekgineer's Chopper is running. :)

[Yatokth]

Imo, engineering is fine where it is... Nearly OP. But not quite.

Giving them crap to market is too much.

...how is it OP?

They have:

Rocket Boots
Parachute Enchants
Mind Control Cap

None of which are usable in arenas, and all of which are pretty easy to counter. Their only good marketable shit is bullets, to ONE CLASS.

Let's look at other profs.

Enchanting:

- RING ENCHANTS. Huge stat gains.
- Marketable enchants, AND DE mats.

Blacksmithing:

- Extra Sockets
- Marketable Belt Buckles.

Smithing is admittedly pretty poor since the downfall of BoP smithing weaps.

Inscription:

- Shoulder glyphs.
- The whole profession is marketable. Period. EVERYONE needs glyphs.

Leatherworking:

- Leg Armors
- Bloodlust Drums, etc...'

Jewelcrafting:

- See Inscription.
- DRAGON'S EYES


Engis have nothing really marketable, at -all-, and their profession isn't OP, it's just cooky. Allowing them to sell stacks of parachute cloaks would put on the same "You need this in the economy" status (admittedly leatherworking and blacksmithing could use a boost here) as other professions, as well as giving all players a counter to dismount abilities, as long as they implement more dismount abilities themselves.

[Rethius]

Go ask Thalarios how much money he has on him.

Go ahead. Ask him.

EDIT: Then ask him how much of that money he made from engineering.

Then go ask him how his Mekgineer's Chopper is running. :)

Hmm... Well on the bright side I may have a job for him, you know, to raise a little coin for the rough times?

Just make sure he is comfortable around strangers.


... Yeah I understand engineering is a pain in the pocket book, but it is still really really powerful. It is unarguable it is the best profession for pvp.

Edit: Don't forget, they also have repair bots, and JEEVES.... JEEVES MAN!

[Yatokth]

Hmm... Well on the bright side I may have a job for him, you know, to raise a little coin for the rough times?

Just make sure he is comfortable around strangers.


... Yeah I understand engineering is a pain in the pocket book, but it is still really really powerful. It is unarguable it is the best profession for pvp.

Edit: Don't forget, they also have repair bots, and JEEVES.... JEEVES MAN!

Actually it is arguable, I'd rather have extra Armor Pen from sockets/dragon's eyes, or ring enchants to give me that extra oomph in arenas so that I can min/max my way to victory.

Engineering really does shit in arenas aside from GLG, which hasn't been used in a whole season.

As for World PvP, sure it's nice, but honestly if you're good you can stop people rocket boot'ing away, and that's about their strongest ability. Mind Control is easily interrupted.

[Rethius]

Actually it is arguable, I'd rather have extra Armor Pen from sockets/dragon's eyes, or ring enchants to give me that extra oomph in arenas so that I can min/max my way to victory.

Engineering really does shit in arenas aside from GLG, which hasn't been used in a whole season.

As for World PvP, sure it's nice, but honestly if you're good you can stop people rocket boot'ing away, and that's about their strongest ability. Mind Control is easily interrupted.

Maybe in arenas, but in world pvp there is no restriction.

Also goblin engineers get an extra stun from one of their splodey do-hickys.... Yeah?

All in all the difference isn't STAGGERING, but it is still the best profession for world pvp.

[Yatokth]

Perhaps, but I don't see how that makes a difference as to why they shouldn't have some way to make money and get people parachute cloaks so we can has MOAR world pvp in the first place.

[Rethius]

Perhaps, but I don't see how that makes a difference as to why they shouldn't have some way to make money and get people parachute cloaks so we can has MOAR world pvp in the first place.

IT MAKES ME SAD!

Okay, lets compromise. You can sell your parachute cloaks.


... But us Blacksmiths get an exclusive auctionhouse that only we can use in Dalaran.


c wat i did thar?

[Yatokth]

IT MAKES ME SAD!

Okay, lets compromise. You can sell your parachute cloaks.


... But us Blacksmiths get an exclusive auctionhouse that only we can use in Dalaran.


c wat i did thar?

Dude I AM a blacksmith. Check my armory, I use the extra sockets for more armor pen. :P

[Rethius]

Dude I AM a blacksmith. Check my armory, I use the extra sockets for more armor pen. :P

... That makes us like. Brothers.

[Swerto]

Our old rocket trinket stunned, but no one uses that anymore. I used it til I hit 80 and got a new trinket because it had a cast time and was otherwise useless.

[Okhu]

The only thing(s) Engineers make money from is Motorcycles and Bullets. First ones a real pain in the ass to make unless the persons getting the mats for you. Generally speaking if they get the mats I make it for free though, since I know the pains of making one for myself. I wouldn't mind being able to sell parachutes to folks. (BS+JC) is still king btw... hopefully we'll see some Cataclysmic changes to professions, though I'm pretty sure I recall Engineering -Getting back to its roots.- Or something... .soo...

MEGA DEATH-RAY 2.0? Use Effect: Fires a focused beam of death that consumes the targets shield(s) AND deals a random amount of Damage. OM NOM NOM NOM.

[Ryoku]

...how is it OP?

They have:

Rocket Boots
Parachute Enchants
Mind Control Cap

They have the Boba Fett rocket glove and the Hyperspeed Accelarators too.

340 haste for 12 seconds out of every minute. For me it is pretty meh. My 1.25 second Lesser Healing Wave becomes 1.12 second casting time. Yahoo.

However I can see the Boba Fett rocket glove as being helpful in that hit hits between I think 1.5k-2.5k. Combining it with a Lava Burst or just using it on it's own could help a lot with assist DPS, or runners seeing as it's range is massive.

That being said, Enchanting / JC are much more reliable, and powerful choices for the ring enchants / dragonseye. Hell, BS / JC for the dragonseye bonus sockets is even a better choice.

EDIT:
MEGA DEATH-RAY 2.0? Use Effect: Fires a focused beam of death that consumes the targets shield(s) AND deals a random amount of Damage. OM NOM NOM NOM.

I would probably offer myself to the Blizzardian Gods if engineers could get their hands on a shattering throw trinket. You don't know how annoying a Triple Paladin team is until you don't have a Warrior/Priest with you.

[Rand_Shea]

This is a response to the OP.

I, personally, am undecided on whether or not flying mounts in Azeroth is a good idea, Cataclysm or not. If there's some means to keep low level and high level players separate, then that's good in that people can still level but bad in that people can't help their lower level friends. If there's not, that's good in the way that world pvp will become more versatile and varied, but bad in that people leveling may (and more than likely will) have to deal with random high levels on fast flyers stalking over entire zones with ease, or people more easily escaping world pvp by just jumping on a flyer and taking off.

Can't help but think that, eventually, flyers and epic flyers will be available to people below level 70... I dunno what I'd think if that happened.

I can see it working for the latter setup if there's some means of an 'alert' system with worthwhile rewards for answering calls for help is implemented. Maybe a bounty system where the system tracks the frequency and what kind of other players a person is killing, and after a certain amount of kills or time, a bounty will be put on their head. Other players who kill said player will get points that they could turn in at capitol cities for either gold or rewards. The bounty on the hunted player would reduce each time they are killed until they're worth nothing, and can go down over time or if they leave the zone.

Players in guilds could create universal bounties for their entire guild, as well, and universal bounties for people who are grouped together in parties or raids, too.

I could see that working to get PvPers to answer calls for help and thus help to regulate ganking/camping on lowbies, but also to promote world pvp as a whole by instituting rewards as well as consequences for people being in guilds or grouping that have a purpose of being pvp oriented.

But, who knows. I suppose I'll be hearing what Cataclysm is like before I get to experience it anyway.

[Yatokth]

I actually once designed a system called "Infamy" to promote world PvP, it worked sort of like old Dishonorable Kills, but they weren't actually DKs (lol) but a separate system that depending on low levels (and higher levels as well) that you kill in a certain zone, you get a sort of 'negative reputation' with the opposing factions town(s) in the zone and when you attack, higher level/more guards spawn, and once you reach a certain level of infamy (sort of reverse-exalted) a certain Town Crier in those towns can give out a daily quest for people to collect your head/ear/finger/weapon/whatever, and a small resonating stone that tells them what zone you are in. (though doesn't put you on their map, just the zone)

After being killed for a daily quest 5 times, your infamy in that zone resets.

Or something.

[Swerto]

I'd be so up for bounty hunting, relive some of my early SWG days XD.

[Rand_Shea]

That's awesome, Yat. :o

Except for one difference in what I'm talking about that I didn't specify... people hunting bounties, whether there to just pvp or to cull gankers/campers, would acquire bounties on their heads for people they killed.

There could also be a system for affecting the bounty depending on what a person is doing, or who they are killing.

Not sure how all that could be implemented, but Blizzards got all those codemonkeys... I'm sure they could make it feasible.

And it would definitely be something fun to do for me, even if I'd probably suck at it.

[Rethius]

Invictus Sanctum has a bounty system, involving screenshots, and gold in the mail.


That is all I am allowed to say.

[Ryoku]

Invictus Sanctum has a bounty system, involving screenshots, and gold in the mail.


That is all I am allowed to say.

But we're like bros. :(

[Rethius]

But we're like bros. :(

... Its really not complicated. We just have a KOS list, and we post screens of them laying limp on the floor in questionable positions.

And we get paid.


... So do ya really mean that?... I mean are we like Bros?..... Brah? :(

[Raziel]

I mean, in modern day warfare, we don't disregard flying attacks, do we? xD

Modern warfare has 15,000 foot range hand-held missile launchers, CWIZ Defensive arrays, and the fact that Flying Attacks can be countered with Flying Attacks in mid-air. Through a MiG isn't really ever comparable to Boeing Combat Airframes, there's still been supersonic dogfights where there's been aerial combat.

Aerial combat works only for ranged classes, which is every class but three.

[Ryoku]

... Its really not complicated. We just have a KOS list, and we post screens of them laying limp on the floor in questionable positions.

And we get paid.


... So do ya really mean that?... I mean are we like Bros?..... Brah? :(

Not with that attitude we're not.

[Yatokth]

Not with that attitude we're not.

Yeah me and Ryo can totally play two player on Mario Kart.

We don't NEED you.

[Swerto]

I want to see aerial combat, something to counter the dismount stupidity.

I do -hate- being dismounted, and if everyone got one you might as well ditch your flying mount in favor of a ground mount... and then druids would be supreme because THEY CANNOT BE DISMOUNTED!!!!!!1111!!!11ONE

I would love to see blizzard actually sit down and try to find a way to balance an aerial combat system out that is balanced and unique for each class, perhaps give us a NEW TYPE OF FLIER THAT HAS GUNS.


WTB TURBO-CHARGED FLYING MACHINE WITH MACHINE GUN.



"They came... from... behind!"

[Okhu]

Do we get awesome flowing red scarfs too?.. I wanna be a Red Baron! Maybe some epic flight helmet that looks like those old ass helmets they used to wear.

[Raziel]

Gosh, I'd never ever thought I'd have the opportunity to post this (http://razielhex.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tw.jpg).

[Broxigan]

Gosh, I'd never ever thought I'd have the opportunity to post this (http://razielhex.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tw.jpg).

Awesome! Image posted by Tripod?!

[Raziel]

funny, it worked for me.

All I did was copy shortcut and paste into address bar.

Given, I was 15 when I made that site that image was scanned for (I had personally scanned nearly 300 images from RPG books). It's a Techno-Wizard from Palladium's RIFTS. Fun class to play. They were basically engineers that built machines powered by magic. Only magicians could use them. They only worked if you could focus magic into the machine. It was kinda like how orky shootaz work.

[opalexian]

Do we get awesome flowing red scarfs too?.. I wanna be a Red Baron! Maybe some epic flight helmet that looks like those old ass helmets they used to wear.

WTB Snoopy suit

[Ryoku]

Yeah me and Ryo can totally play two player on Mario Kart.

We don't NEED you.

Double Dash, right? It's the gamecube version.

[Härken]

Honestly I have had some great World PvP in Northrend (mostly in Grizzly Hills) it's just that most of the juicy targets (major cities) are in the Old World.

Imagine an air strike into Stormwind or Orgrimmar. Badass? I think so.

Eliminating flying mounts will eliminate the following:

1 - Corpse camping, something anyone with a brain could get out of anyway.
2 - Repeated killing of someone in the area.
3 - The commitment you make going somewhere and being able to defend yourself to assert dominance. See: Isle of Quel'Danas.

HOWEVER.

Cataclysm also adds AAAALL the following to World PvP:

1 - Versatility of attack. Cities and towns can now be assaulted via the air, rooftops, etc...
2 - Presence of high levels in same continent as low levels. Some 80 might be flying over, swoop down and gank some bitch in the Wetlands, get cocky and camp (and/or be flying to an obvious trackable high level zone) and then have another dude get on his 80, so the original guy calls his friends, who call their friends, which makes the opposition call THEIR friends - shazam world pvp.
3 - Resource war! Imagine ganking a mining node in the mountains between the Barrens and Mulgore on some unsuspecting bitch on their nether drake.
3 - Tol Barad area, as a counter to Quel'Danas, it will probably allow flying when it's not in the WG-style battle, but the presence of so many people will make a hotspot anyways - I mean come on, before the Argent Tournament, Dun Niffelem was a WAR ZONE, and it had fliers.

Agreed, it is easier to pussy out once Cataclysm comes, but eh, I still think World PvP will be strong as long as players go out and do it.

Although I would not argue if Blizz decided to give more classes dismount abilities/knockbacks. Do want.

3 - The commitment you make going somewhere and being able to defend yourself to assert dominance. See: Isle of Quel'Danas.


That one. Good times good times.

[Yatokth]

3 - The commitment you make going somewhere and being able to defend yourself to assert dominance. See: Isle of Quel'Danas.


That one. Good times good times.

Quel'Danas was probably my favorite zone in BC - It was PvP for gold! Tons of fun.

Can't wait for Tol Barad. :D

[Xiphus]

Quel'Danas was probably my favorite zone in BC - It was PvP for gold! Tons of fun.

Can't wait for Tol Barad. :D

Quel'Danas was hours of fun. You put lots of maxed level characters in there trying to gain rep and do daily quests (helps that it is one of the best spots for dailies in BC) and you are bound to have a fight break out. It's like taking two groups of soccer hooligans and throw them into the same pub.

[Härken]

Quel'Danas was probably my favorite zone in BC - It was PvP for gold! Tons of fun.

Can't wait for Tol Barad. :D

That sounds promising haha, for sure man I'm waiten on the release of another zone like that hopefully spices up world PvP again. So that legends can be born again!

[Broxigan]

Quel'Danas was probably my favorite zone in BC - It was PvP for gold! Tons of fun.

Can't wait for Tol Barad. :D

Don't hold me to it, but I recall reading somewhere a post from Ghostcrawler on the official forums about Tol Barad being instanced due to all the issues they are having with WG.

[Irontoe]

Don't hold me to it, but I recall reading somewhere a post from Ghostcrawler on the official forums about Tol Barad being instanced due to all the issues they are having with WG.

I don't think this is correct. They were talking about daily quests and comparing it to the Isle of Quel'danas at Blizzcon. I believe there was talk of multiple world PvP zones to split the population, though.

[Agnarr]

Don't hold me to it, but I recall reading somewhere a post from Ghostcrawler on the official forums about Tol Barad being instanced due to all the issues they are having with WG.

Hmm. That makes you wonder what they screwed up with Wintergrasp that worked fine with Quel Danas. Though I don't remember seeing hundreds of people in Quel'Danas at once, unlike Wintergrasp.

[Broxigan]

Hmm. That makes you wonder what they screwed up with Wintergrasp that worked fine with Quel Danas. Though I don't remember seeing hundreds of people in Quel'Danas at once, unlike Wintergrasp.

Free epix is what brings the people to WG. All the heirloom items/gems/pvp gear with hit rating/mounts. Not to mention the quests/honor/dailies/gold. Not to mention access to VoA pinata party.

Sure, Quel had alot of those things, getting the items at exalted...

But it required alot of time.

[Taknar]

Also, Quel'danas didn't have siege vehicles or destructible buildings. We (read as: I) have no idea what kind of load it puts on bandwidth to communicate that data.