Frost DK PvP - 2-hander or 2-handed?

[Taknar]

With my recent change of events (http://wow-tng.org/blog.php?b=2839), I'm looking for Death Knight specs for PvP once again. I am trying to make up my mind though as to what would be more effective in the Frost tree. I love the feel of Frost so me leaving it is unlikely, but I'm curious to know what the non-obvious useful talents are, and what tree I should go down for the extra points.

So my first question is relating to disease dispelling. Should I do my best to prevent such dispells or should I just accept it as an eventuality and avoid talents that buff up based on disease (such as http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49791)?

[Irontoe]

I'll post later, but I can't find any Frost DKs anywhere near the top of any bracket. It's a goog BG/world PvP spec still, and you don't have to worry about dispels as much there.

If you're concerned about arenas, though, you probably shouldn't be speccing full Frost period.

[Taknar]

I'll post later, but I can't find any Frost DKs anywhere near the top of any bracket. It's a goog BG/world PvP spec still, and you don't have to worry about dispels as much there.

If you're concerned about arenas, though, you probably shouldn't be speccing full Frost period.

My highest rated team this expansion has been 329. I'm not looking to be the best, but just to have fun with guildies in BG and world events.

[Irontoe]

My highest rated team this expansion has been 329. I'm not looking to be the best, but just to have fun with guildies in BG and world events.

Unless you expect to run into raids of highly coordinated Alliance players on a regular basis, I wouldn't worry about dispels.

[Taknar]

Unless you expect to run into raids of highly coordinated Alliance players on a regular basis, I wouldn't worry about dispels.

*thinks back to last night's raid defence* Hmmm.... I could see it happening.

Besides, you don't need to be that coordinated to drop cleansing totem. And I do see myself doing casual 2s with my brother so I should keep that in mind as well.

[Irontoe]

Besides, you don't need to be that coordinated to drop cleansing totem. And I do see myself doing casual 2s with my brother so I should keep that in mind as well.

How many Alliance shaman do you ever see?

[Akuje]

When I arena'd Tradire, our most successful spec in 3's was a hybrid frost spec, dual wielding.

If you just want fun. do what you enjoy most,

[Taknar]

When I arena'd Tradire, our most successful spec in 3's was a hybrid frost spec, dual wielding.

If you just want fun. do what you enjoy most,

What spec did you use?

[Akuje]

What spec did you use?

I honestly don't remember, and it's not even possible now with the tree changes. It was a frost/blood mix. Blood down to the rune taps, and then Frost for everything that looks fun.

[Kaliera]

The biggest thing keeping DKs back this season is the reliance on diseases compared to the ease of dispelling them. As frost, you rely on Frost Fever to an insane degree. If you come up against a team/group capable of dispelling (which is rather often), you'll enjoy doing next to no damage on your targets.

That said, you're better off using a two-hander if you are completely adamant about playing frost. Talent points are a limited resource, particularly so for PvP builds. Placing 3 talent points just to be able to dual wield tends not to be worth what you could end up sacrificing otherwise.

[Taknar]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Karryn&group=2

This is the spec I used last night, and I had a decent amount of fun with it. If I'm using 6 points to prop up DW where I don't need to be, where should I be putting them?

[Swerto]

Frost DW Is SO much fun.

You need two SLOW one handers, I suggest getting the 1h mace from heroic Trial.

If you don't have good one handers, just grab a titansteel destroyer and do Frost 2h spec, which is still fun.

[Taknar]

Yeah, weapons are an issue that I need to address eventually. I've got a iLevel 214 and iLevel 200 weapon right now though which isn't nearly as bad as the blue mace I was sporting on Taknar when I did my last heroic TOC marathon.

Then again, my entire set is an issue that needs addressing. I think I want to get the spec decided first, for what is fun and useful, before I start gearing.

[Swerto]

Well my DK is very shitilly geared, I'm using the titansteel 1h DPS mace for my mainhand, and a tanking sword for the offhand, and I still pull competent DPS and kick ass in BGs.

Just keep hitting heroic ToC, it'll eventually drop off of Eadric. Need to get back to hitting it daily on my DK :/.


But really your choice on the specs is based on your weapons, spec to your gear, not gear to your spec. If you don't have a good 1h right now you NEED to go to 2h. Your weapons need to swing slower than 2.5 preferably and have to have high damage.

[Taknar]

How are you measuring DPS in BGs?

[Swerto]

My PvP spec doubles as my DPS spec for instnaces, considering my main spec is a frost 2h tanking spec.

For being in half tanking gear I'm pretty sure 2800 DPS is good for heroics :P

I'm usually top damage done, or near it in BGs like AV and Isle. Howling blast crits like a mofo, and it hits everything.

[Taknar]

I personally try to stay away from using my PvE DPS to measure myself in PvP. I pulled 3500 DPS in VoA 25 last night, but that's mostly because bosses don't attempt to kite my ass. =D

[Swerto]

Never said I measured it for my PvP :P, Just said that I can pull decent DPS for being in half blues, half tanking gear.

Get ahold of me in game while on Swerto, I'll fit you in on my daily heroic ToC run (I need ONE more axe) and let you go for your mace.

[Taknar]

Thanks for the offer Swerto, but like I said I'm not too interested in gearing up before figuring this out, and any instance I run should be on my priest to get him ready for 25 mans as a shadow priest.

Any feedback on my spec choices and glyphs are welcome. Note that at this time, I haven't actually spent any time on glyphs though so don't judge what is there now as "stupid" lol

[Kaliera]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Karryn&group=2

This is the spec I used last night, and I had a decent amount of fun with it. If I'm using 6 points to prop up DW where I don't need to be, where should I be putting them?

Utility talents, for the most part, but keep in mind that my bias generally leans towards group based PvP. Giving up things like Epidemic, Imp. Death Grip, 2/2 Icy Reach, and Chill to the Grave in favor of using two one-handers isn't something I'd do.

Now, for solo play, that build should work just fine, but alone, I'd likely rather be playing blood or unholy, so I can't give an entirely unbiased opinion on the spec.

[Taknar]

I'm curious about your reasoning towards epidemic. Especially in group based PvP, where more organized opponents are generally found I would have thought that expected a disease to stay up for it's full duration as is was a unlikely affair let alone one with an extended duration.

[Swerto]

IMP death grip is overrated, as is epidemic.

Dump your leftover points in blood, not unholy. 5% crit = win.

[Akuje]

Now this is the story about how you should just remember one thing, Taknar. Just about anything Swerto says is wrong, because he flipped my life upside down. And I'd like to take a minute just sit right there. I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Fort Wildervar.

[Swerto]

You haven't played in months Akuje, West Philadelphia is where I was born and raised, and it's VERY different than the playground where I spent most of my days. Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool, and all shooting some b-ball outside of the school.

[Akuje]

You haven't played in months Akuje, West Philadelphia is where I was born and raised, and it's VERY different than the playground where I spent most of my days. Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool, and all shooting some b-ball outside of the school.

Wait... wait, I haven't played in months?

What couple of guys have been controlling my account, up to no good? Have they started making trouble in my neighborhood? I am fully aware that I got in one little fight, and my mom got scared. So she said you're moving with your aunte and uncle in Fort Wildervar.

[Swerto]

I haven't seen Akuje or Tradire around in months. So unless you whistled for a cab and when it came near, the license plate said fresh and had a dice in the mirror...

[Akuje]

Taknar, if I was going to fiddle with PvP this is what I'd try, more of a fun spec with good surviability and the abilities that should keep runes up all the time

http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calculator/Deathknight/23150010330000000000000000003200530034020310233103 11313510000000000000000000000000000000?v=8

[Swerto]

Something more like this (http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calculator/Deathknight/23050005000000000000000000003202530135020310233103 31013510000000000000000000000000000000?v=8)

rune tap is highly overrated, it doesn't heal for much and the blood rune is much better used as a blood strike for the extra burst. If you need to heal use death pact or death strike.

Death Strike will not be used often so those 3 points are mostly a waste, and even if you do use them often you turn frost and unholy runes to death runes instead of blood (which does NOTHING for you since you aren't spamming heart strike like blood death knights).

Lichborne is a useful trinket that keeps ticking for a few seconds, though I'd avoid using it in the presence of a Paladin.

You want as much damage as you can have, because frost isn't as utility heavy as unholy.

[Akuje]

I haven't seen Akuje or Tradire around in months. So unless you whistled for a cab and when it came near, the license plate said fresh and had a dice in the mirror...

Nope, they've been on a bit, might be I pulled up to a house about seven or eight, and I yelled to the cabby yo, homey smell you later.

[Gorvena]

Nope, they've been on a bit, might be I switched to the winning team.
GIMME BACK MY THUNDERCHICKEN!

[Akuje]

GIMME BACK MY THUNDERCHICKEN!

I miss your's and Orugasa's fish =(

[Kaliera]

IMP death grip is overrated


If you do any amount of arena PvP and aren't a player who tunnel visions one target without protecting the healer, Imp Death Grip is a godsent. It's pretty damn trash for 1v1 and maybe even battlegrounds, but going into arenas dual-wielding instead of picking up talents like that is just plain silly. DKs are no longer the damage zerg class they once were. The utility is pretty much everything, and skimping on it is self-crippling.

[Fhenrir]

Keep the trolling and offtopic to a minimum guys. The worst offenders have been toned down to be more friendly and less offensive.

[Swerto]

If you do any amount of arena PvP and aren't a player who tunnel visions one target without protecting the healer, Imp Death Grip is a godsent. It's pretty damn trash for 1v1 and maybe even battlegrounds, but going into arenas dual-wielding instead of picking up talents like that is just plain silly. DKs are no longer the damage zerg class they once were. The utility is pretty much everything, and skimping on it is self-crippling.
And frost sucks for Arena, this is a world PvP and BG spec. If you're doing arena, do Unholy. Frost is not about utility, it's about insane damage.

[Taknar]

No Swerto, I think I agree with Kaliera on the imp death grip thing. As the healer on the other end of the "save me!" rope, it's immensely useful. I just think I need to work my skill up to using it.

I'm still curious about epidemic though, and the rationale behind keeping it in this dispel heavy world we live in.

Aside: One stubborn thing is that I'm not going Unholy or Blood just because they may be better. I like the style and mechanics of Frost. Even if I went into Arena, I'd be Frost.

[Swerto]

Epidemic is worthless, since the only plague you'll worry about is frost fever, which will constantly be reapplied by howling blast (if you grab glyph, which you should)

Improved death grip is useful, but the points are better spent on the 5% crit unless you're already past 30%

[Taknar]

Epidemic is worthless, since the only plague you'll worry about is frost fever, which will constantly be reapplied by howling blast (if you grab glyph, which you should)

Hush you, we've already heard your say on the matter (although I disagree with your assessment of blood plague; I notice a consistent DPS boost with both diseases present).

[Yatokth]

And frost sucks for Arena, this is a world PvP and BG spec. If you're doing arena, do Unholy. Frost is not about utility, it's about insane damage.

Frost doesn't necessarily suck for Arenas, and neither does Blood, they just both have their niche.

My DK in 5s is Blood.

We're 5th on the BG at the moment.

Notably, Frost has been nerfed to the point where Blood outscales it on damage and survivability, and Unholy outscales in utility, but Hungering Cold is still a powerful force that can really fuck people up if used right.