PTR Notes

[Yatokth]

A new Battleground will not launch until the maximum number of players on each side are in the queue (i.e. 40 players per side for Alterac Valley).

SWEET GOD YES.

Also:

YAY BEAST CLEAVE AND ARMOR PEN NERFS.

Now get rid of Unrelenting Assault, Armor Pen, and any remaining LOLGLOBAL'D burst going around. >: (

P.S. MMO Champion for the full notes.

[Taknar]

I could have sworn that's what they were doing now, and the number of uneven starts were because of people not accepting the queue prompts. If what this means instead is "a battleground will not launch until the maximum # of people click 'accept' " then that's better.

[Okhu]

How will I ever get Alterac Blitz now!...ON SHADOWBURN!...FFFFFF

*lol*

[Irontoe]

How will I ever get Alterac Blitz now!...ON SHADOWBURN!...FFFFFF

*lol*

Make a premade. You can do it pretty consistently with only around 15 people in the premade. When FDI ran AV, we got Blitz nearly every game unless we were going for a different achievement (like Defender. LOL the Horde must have been pissed when we waited around in Vann's room for 50 kills each).

[Lythas]

Welp, time to start really haunting those Eye of the Storm BGs.

[Ansha]

Someone post it for those of us at work who can't access mmochampion?

[Yatokth]

World of Warcraft PTR Patch 3.2.2

The latest test realm patch notes can always be found at http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

The latest patch notes can always be found at http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/

The Brood Mother Returns
After years of lurking in her lair battling the many brave adventurers who travelled from afar to challenge her, Onyxia returns stronger than before to commemorate World of Warcraft’s five-year anniversary.

* Onyxia has been scaled to offer new challenges to level 80 players and is now available for testing in 10- and 25-player modes.
* Adjusted for modern raiding, but with the fundamental experience of fighting the Brood Mother still in effect, including the horrors of her Deep Breaths!
* Onyxia will now drop level 80 item versions of some classic loot items from the level 60 encounter.
* Brood of Onyxia, a very rare 310%-speed mount modeled after Onyxia herself will be available for the luckiest of challengers.


General

* Armor Penetration Rating: The amount of armor penetration gained per point of this rating has been reduced by 12%.
* Copied Test Realm characters will no longer be copied with their achievement history in order to better facilitate the character copy process.


PvP
Battlegrounds

* Players level 11 and higher will now always see a daily Battleground quest, as the quest giver will only offer daily quests for a Battleground in which a player is eligible to participate according to level bracket (i.e. players levels 11-20 will always be offered a Warsong Gulch daily quest, while players levels 11-50 will be offered either an Arathi Basin or a Warsong Gulch daily quest, etc.).


Death Knight

* Frost Presence: The damage reduction granted by this ability has been increased from 5% to 8%.

Pets

* Gnaw: This death knight ghoul ability now has a 1-minute cooldown.

Blood

* Heart Strike: Secondary targets of Heart Strike now take half as much damage.
* Subversion: Now also increases the critical strike chance of Scourge Strike by 3/6/9%.
* Vampiric Blood: Cooldown reduced to 1 minute and duration reduced to 10 seconds.

Frost

* Threat of Thassarian now also causes Rune Strike to use both weapons when dual-wielding.
* Unbreakable Armor: Cooldown reduced to 1 minute and changed back to granting 25% additional armor while active instead of flat damage reduction based on armor. The amount of strength granted has been reduced to 10%.

Unholy

* Bone Shield: Cooldown reduced to 1 minute.
* Dirge: This talent no longer grants additional runic power from using Obliterate.


Druid
Balance

* Moonkin Form: This form now also reduces the damage the druid takes while stunned by 15%.
* Typhoon: The daze duration has been increased from 3 seconds to 6 seconds.

Feral Combat

* Predatory Strikes: This talent now also causes the druid’s finishing moves to provide a 7/13/20% chance per combo point to make the next Nature spell with a cast time below 10 seconds instant cast.


Hunter
Beast Mastery

* The Beast Within: The duration of this talent has been reduced to 10 seconds. In addition, hunters with this talent will do 10% additional damage at all times.
* Bestial Wrath: The duration of this talent has been reduced to 10 seconds.


Mage

* Arcane Blast: The buff from using this ability now stacks up to 4 times instead of 3, and each application increases mana cost by 175% instead of 200%. In addition, the duration of the buff has been reduced to 6 seconds.
* Arcane Missiles: Casting this spell while both Missile Barrage and Clearcasting are active will cause only Missile Barrage to be consumed.

Arcane

* Missile Barrage: The effect from triggering this talent now removes the mana cost of Arcane Missiles. In addition, the chance for Arcane Blast to trigger this talent is now 8/16/24/32/40%. All other listed spells continue to have a 4/8/12/16/20% chance to trigger it. This talent no longer has a chance to be triggered when spells miss.

Fire

* Combustion: This talent now also increases the critical strike damage bonus of Fire spells by 50% while it is active. In addition, Living Bomb periodic ticks will no longer interact with the count or the charges on the talent.


Paladin

* Righteous Fury: The bonus threat from Holy spells caused by this talent has been reduced from 90% to 80%.
* Seal of Corruption and Seal of Vengeance: These seals will now only use the debuff stacks generated by the attacking paladin to determine the damage done by the seal and by the judgement.

Protection

* Blessing of Sanctuary: This blessing now grants 10% strength in addition to its current effects. Also, the strength and stamina bonuses from this blessing will no longer be lost when Blessing of Kings is removed.
* Hammer of the Righteous: The damage from this ability is now considered physical instead of Holy. The threat generated by the ability has been increased such that it will continue to do approximately the same threat it did when it was Holy damage.
* Judgements of the Just: The reduction in cooldown to Hammer of Justice provided by this talent has been reduced to 5/10 seconds instead of 10/20 seconds.
* Touched by the Light: This talent now provides 20/40/60% of the paladin’s strength as spell power instead of 10/20/30% of the paladin’s stamina.

Retribution

* Seal of Command: This ability now chains to strike up to 2 additional targets when it is triggered by an attack that can only strike a single target.


Priest
Shadow

* Improved Spirit Tap: Mind Flay periodic critical strikes now have a 50% chance to trigger this talent.
* Twisted Faith now grants spell power equal to 4/8/12/16/20% of spirit, up from 2/4/6/8/10%.


Rogue

* Envenom’s scaling has been increased from 7% to 9% of attack power per combo point.
* Fan of Knives: The damage done by this ability has been reduced by 30%.

Assassination

* Master Poisoner: No longer increases the Deadly Poison application rate following a successful Envenom and instead now provides a 33/66/100% chance of preventing Envenom from consuming Deadly Poison.

Combat

* Throwing Specialization: This talent no longer causes Fan of Knives to interrupt spellcasting.

Subtlety

* Honor Among Thieves: A 1-second cooldown is now enforced on how often a rogue can gain combo points from his party via this talent.


Shaman

* Flame Shock: The duration of all ranks has been increased by 6 seconds.
* Lava Burst: This ability no longer ever consumes a Flame Shock debuff off of the target.

Enhancement

* Earthen Power: No longer causes Earthbind to pulse a persistent snare immunity aura. It does still remove snares from allies as an instant pulse, but there is no lingering immunity. Earthen Power now also brings Earth Shock’s melee attack speed reduction up to -15%/-20% (with 1 or 2 points in it, respectively).


Warrior
Arms

* Sword Specialization: Now has a 2/4/6/8/10% chance to proc an extra attack, up from 1/2/3/4/5%.


Dungeons & Raids
Shadowfang Keep

* Wailing Guardsman: Screams of the Past will no longer have multiple applications on a target. Recast time has been increased.

Ulduar

* Increased the cooldown on Immortal Guardians' Drain Life ability in the Yogg-Saron encounter.


Achievements

* The Achievement "Iron, Dwarf Medium Rare (25 player)" now requires 25 kills, down from 50.
* The Frostwolf Howler and Stormpike Battle Charger Achievements will now be awarded when a player learns the respective mount spells.


Professions

* The blacksmiths of Orgrimmar grew tired of running to the rear of the city to craft items and have installed a new anvil & forge at the General Store in the Valley of Strength.

Engineering

* The Mind Amplification Dish no longer changes the appearance of your helmet.

Inscription

* Added a recipe for Runescroll of Brilliance. This item grants an intellect buff equal to 80% of the highest Arcane Intellect rank to all players in the raid. Does not stack with other intellect scrolls, Arcane Intellect, or Arcane Brilliance.
* Added a recipe for Runescroll of Fortitude. This item grants a stamina buff equal to the highest rank of Power Word: Fortitude (untalented) to all players in the raid. Does not stack with other stamina scrolls and Power Word: Fortitude.

Leatherworking

* Added a recipe for Drums of Forgotten Kings. These drums increase all stats by 8% for all players in a raid. Does not stack with Blessing of Kings.
* Added a recipe for Drums of the Wild. These drums grant a buff equal to the highest rank of Mark of the Wild (untalented) to all players in a raid. Does not stack with Mark of the Wild.


Glyphs

* Glyph of Flame Shock: Redesigned. This glyph now makes Flame Shock periodic damage able to be critical strikes.
* Glyph of Mind Flay: This glyph no longer reduces the magnitude of the movement reduction on the Mind Flay victim.
* Glyph of Scourge Strike: Redesigned. This glyph now causes Scourge Strike to extend the duration of Frost Fever and Blood Plague by 3 seconds each time Scourge Strike is used on a target, up to a maximum of 9 seconds.
* Glyph of Typhoon: This glyph now increases the range on Typhoon by 10 yards in addition to its current effects.
* Glyph of Unbreakable Armor: Now increases the armor gained from Unbreakable Armor by 20%.
* Glyph of Vampiric Blood: The glyph now increases the duration of Vampiric Blood by 5 seconds instead of 10.


Items

* The Black Heart: This item’s animation has been changed and no longer resembles Hand of Protection.
* Death Knight Tier-9 Tanking 4-Piece Set Bonus: Now decreases the cooldown on Vampiric Blood, Unbreakable Armor, and Bone Shield by 10 seconds instead of 20.
* Druid Tier-8 Healer 4-Piece Set Bonus: The amount of healing this set bonus grants on the initial cast of Rejuvenation has been reduced by 50%. In addition, this set bonus no longer has strange interactions with Harold’s Rejuvenating Broach.
* Libram of Obstruction: The buff to block value from this relic is now exclusive with the buff to block value from Libram of the Sacred Shield; it is impossible to have both buffs at once.
* Libram of the Sacred Shield: The block value buff from this relic has been increased to match its item level.
* Relics: All buffs provided by relics (idols, librams, totems and sigils) now share an exclusive category such that gaining a buff from one of these items will remove all other buffs gained from items in this category.
* Totem of Quaking Earth: Attack power value increased to 400.


User Interface

* The size of the Focus Frame can now be adjusted via the Interface Options menu.

Mail System Auto-Complete Feature

* The inline auto-complete feature for the mail system has been added back into the game. The mail system will now have both the pre- and post-3.2.0 auto-complete features available.
* Added a label to notify players that the Tab key will allow players to navigate through the character names listed via the auto-complete feature.

Battleground Queuing

* Players may now only queue for no more than two Battlegrounds at a time.
* The dialog box for entering a Battleground match has been changed to reflect the following options: “Enter Battle,” “Leave Queue,” and “Minimize.”
* The time a player has to enter a battle when selected has been reduced to 40 seconds when not already in a Battleground and 20 seconds when in a Battleground.
* Players already in a Battleground can now choose “Enter Battle” for a new Battleground under any circumstance (i.e. while dead, in combat, falling, etc.).
* A new Battleground will not launch until the maximum number of players on each side are in the queue (i.e. 40 players per side for Alterac Valley).


For additional notes on Lua and XML changes please visit the UI & Macros Forum: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?sid=1&forumId=11114

Bug Fixes

* Coliseum Trinkets: Some spells that should have triggered these trinkets will now trigger them (such as Holy Nova and Fel Armor).
* Death Knight Tier-9 DPS 4-Piece Set Bonus: Now grants the correct chance for disease damage ticks to be critical strikes.
* Hunter Tier-9 2-Piece Set Bonus: Critical damage from Serpent Sting will now work properly with the Mortal Shots and Expose Weakness talents.
* Lightweave Embroidery: This tailoring item enhancement will no longer trigger from the periodic healing granted by the warlock spell Fel Armor.
* Mote of Flame: Corrected a typo in the tooltip.
* Paladin Tier-9 DPS 2-Piece Set Bonus: Now grants the correct chance for Righteous Vengeance ticks to be critical strikes.
* Shard of Flame: Corrected a typo in the tooltip.
* Val’anyr, Hammer of The Ancient Kings: Healing from Prayer of Mending now triggers the shield from this item. In addition, a bug was corrected which would cause the shield points to be overwritten rather than stack up as intended.

Death Knight

* Rune of Razorice: The frost vulnerability granted by this enchantment will now increase the damage done by Frost Fever as intended.

Druid

* Balance of Power: Misleading tooltip reworded. The tooltip previously reported an incorrect value for the increased chance to hit with spells. The actual benefit of the talent is unchanged.

Hunter

* Master's Call: This ability now correctly removes the snaring component of Infected Wounds, Frostfire Bolt, and Slow.
* Trap Mastery’s (Survival) tooltip now states the correct amount of snakes summoned.

Mage

* Arcane Missiles: Ranks 12 and 13 will now properly cause players to enter combat.

Paladin

* Hand of Freedom: This ability now correctly removes the snaring component of Infected Wounds and Frostfire Bolt.

Priest

* Divine Aegis: Ranks 1 and 2 will now work with Holy Nova.
* Glyph of Power Word: Shield now correctly uses the Priest’s spell critical chance instead of the target’s.

Rogue

* Vanish: This ability now correctly removes the snaring component of Frostfire Bolt.
* Honor Among Thieves: This talent will now work properly again if two rogues with different ranks of the talent are in the same party.

Shaman

* Grounding Totem will now properly protect against the Death Grip spell.
* Lava Burst can no longer deal critical damage to targets who are immune to critical strikes (due to, e.g. Roar of Sacrifice, Blessed Resilience).
* Lightning Shield: This spell will no longer set off some trinkets when it is cast.
* Stoneclaw Totem's pulses will no longer break stealth on nearby hostile units.
* Thunderstorm and Shamanistic Rage can no longer be used while Frozen, Cycloned, Sapped, or Incapacitated.

Warlock

* Demonic Circle: This ability now correctly removes the snaring component of Frostfire Bolt.
* Fel Armor: This spell was unable to set off trinkets and other effects. That has been corrected.
* When using Shadowbolt or Incinerate while having Backlash and Backdraft active, only Backlash will now be properly consumed.

PYLONSGOHERE

[Ansha]

Need more vespene gas.

Thanks.

[Swerto]

-looks at warrior changes-

-dies-

Fuck.

Yes.

[Ryoku]

*Stoneclaw Totem's pulses will no longer break stealth on nearby hostile units.

Best.. Glitch.. Ever. :(

[Fhenrir]

I could have sworn that's what they were doing now, and the number of uneven starts were because of people not accepting the queue prompts. If what this means instead is "a battleground will not launch until the maximum # of people click 'accept' " then that's better.

This sums up my feelings exactly. More often than not, lopsided games are a result of people sitting on the queue and not accepting. Amusingly, the inability to click "drop queue" in the quick pop up window is a big part of this problem.

If the change's wording is to be taken at face value, it's not going to do much to fix the problem of lopsided games other than to prolong the time it takes for the games to launch. Maybe it's to try and conserve instance servers?

[Chikt]

This sums up my feelings exactly. More often than not, lopsided games are a result of people sitting on the queue and not accepting. Amusingly, the inability to click "drop queue" in the quick pop up window is a big part of this problem.

If the change's wording is to be taken at face value, it's not going to do much to fix the problem of lopsided games other than to prolong the time it takes for the games to launch. Maybe it's to try and conserve instance servers?

It's a multi-tiered change and the focus is NOT on the battleground queue itself. I have to admit I had to re-read the notes a few times to fully understand it, but the major change isn't in the queue itself.

The current system, it DOESN'T actually need the max amount of people to start a BG. If I remember correctly it only requires the minimum amount of people for that BG to actually stay OPEN to be queued to start a new BG. Otherwise you wouldn't see situations like what happened with the Alliance before when they boycotted AV - games starting with only 10 people on the Alliance side. 30 people didn't drop their queue (obviously).

The system isn't waiting for there to be 40 people inside the Alterac Valley instance before it starts. It's waiting for 40 people to be in the Alterac Valley queue before it starts a new instance. This means that rather than situations we're currently experiencing (new instances starting even though the other instances aren't full of players yet, new instances starting only with a minimum amount of people,) queues will be a bit longer with new games with a minimum amount of people being far, FAR less likely.

They're streamlining the system as they complicate it. They're not reinventing the system.

No, the substantial change is in these four things:

#1 - Players may now only queue for no more than two Battlegrounds at a time.
#2 - The dialog box for entering a Battleground match has been changed to reflect the following options: “Enter Battle,” “Leave Queue,” and “Minimize.”
#3 - The time a player has to enter a battle when selected has been reduced to 40 seconds when not already in a Battleground and 20 seconds when in a Battleground.
#4 - Players already in a Battleground can now choose “Enter Battle” for a new Battleground under any circumstance (i.e. while dead, in combat, falling, etc.).

On number 1: Limiting the amount of BG's a player can queue for is the first smart thing to do. Rather than leaving 2 battlegrounds down a player if you take a queue, now, you're only leaving 1 battleground down a player - halving the battlegrounds the server has to search for players to fill.

On number 2: Giving you the ability to instantly leave a queue when it pops means the server can go straight about searching for a new player to fill that spot, rather than you continuously hiding the queue while you do other things.

On number 3: The less time you have to accept the queue, the less time other people are waiting before a replacement is found for you when you let the queue time out - leading to far quicker replacements from the people currently in line to do that battleground.

On number 4: One of the far less prevalent issues with pugs is when they drop out of a BG and go to another one, people are left behind because they can't accept their queue. This seems more a quality of living change, but it will also speed up the replacement process.

What I see being problematic:
Longer Queue Times: You're going to be waiting a little longer to get into the queue as this system is far more complex than the last. What it does mean is that once you get into that Strand of the Ancients, you're going to be down a minimum amount of players (unless you had a premade drop out on your side) rather than 5 because the server started the battleground with the bare minimum. The people that did drop out will be replaced far quicker than before because of the longer queue times, however.

Longer Honor Grinds: See Above.

Not Enough Players: One thing I've noticed on Shadowburn - particularly with Isle and AV - is only one game being active at a time during the later hours, with only 15 people on either side. You won't see this happen anymore as the game won't start at all until 40 people queue - meaning that for Aussies on American servers, BGing in the early hours of the morning likely just got cut down to WSG, AB, EotS and Strand.

Overall, however, it's going to be a change that - likely not as substantially as everybody hopes - relieve some of that frustration with entering BG's with only a minimum amount of people in them.

TL;DR - Think of the current system as a running tap. That tap is players trying to get into battlegrounds.

With the current system, it's only filling the cup minimally and going back to the tap to try and get full. If there's a minimum amount of water it'll start trying to fill a second cup. If anything is spilled, it goes to the tap for more - but now it has two half-filled cups and no running water.

The new system, each cup will be filled to the brim straight away and doesn't start filling a second cup until the first is full. If any of it is spilled, it can draw easily from the tap still.

[Agnarr]

I see a potential problem with the 40 second limit outside of battlegrounds. There's been a few times that I've been in combat when my queue comes up, and if its a tough fight, it could easily take longer than that 40 second period to get out of combat, meaning I'll have to re-queue again. The whole point to queuing from anywhere was to avoid having to sit around in front of the battlemasters to join a fight, and that change could push it back that direction...except instead of standing in front of a battlemaster, you'll be wandering Dalaran or flying circles around Warsong Hold.

[Fhenrir]

The set of four changes above does a lot for the system, definitely. Looking forward to those if I come back to doing BGs with any regularity.

I suppose I should've checked the full patch notes under "Battleground queuing", because interestingly enough I was just talking to Yat yesterday about how screwed up it was that they removed the option to leave a battleground queue from the insta-pop window you get while in another BG.

[Raynell]

Those Prot Pally nerfs make me nervous.

[Yatokth]

Those Prot Pally nerfs are needed because that spec was stupid.

Fixed.

[Raynell]

Ouch, man. Ouch.

Pallies = The Rodney Dangerfield class. No respect at all.

[Swerto]

Maybe if you pushed more than four buttons -_^

[Skaadvik]

I don't see the prot changes making a huge difference for actual tanking. Like Yat said, that spec was stupid and the changes are needed. I don't roll with that spec anymore and I'll be glad not to be fighting people who do.

as far as buttons, swerto, I have two full action bars bound to my keyboard and had to start binding part of a third action bar because I was running out of buttons for all my stuff.

[Irontoe]

As far as buttons, swerto, I have two full action bars bound to my keyboard and had to start binding part of a third action bar because I was running out of buttons for all my stuff.

Try playing a hunter. lol

[Swerto]

The wink (-_^) signifies a joke.

Only ret paladins have four buttons. And even they have to use others for certain situations.

[Lysimachus]

Try playing a hunter. lol

God, it's so true. I left mine off at 72 because I got too confused.

[Geofforan]

The wink (-_^) signifies a joke.

Only ret paladins have four buttons. And even they have to use others for certain situations.

Prot pallies have FIVE!

Fucking Ret making us all look like facerollers...

[Cessily]

Skill is for noobs, imo.

If your class has 4 buttons and reaches Gladiator, then it's all fun and games. Don't worry about all the butt-hurt scrubs of other classes that say you faceroll! They are not angry! There are envious!

[Yatokth]

It takes skill to play at a 2500-2600 level no matter what class you are, as long as you're not playing 2v2.

No, I'm serious, there are some seriously terribad prot pally/DK teams that made that rating and made videos - awful players.

[Kaliera]

It takes skill to play at a 2500-2600 level no matter what class you are, as long as you're not playing 2v2.

No, I'm serious, there are some seriously terribad prot pally/DK teams that made that rating and made videos - awful players.

Come now; there were a few disc priest / resto druid / FoK rogue teams that made gladiator last season by spamming heals on a rogue humping a caster with FoK. 3s have some immensely skilless comps too.

[Yatokth]

Come now; there were a few disc priest / resto druid / FoK rogue teams that made gladiator last season by spamming heals on a rogue humping a caster with FoK. 3s have some immensely skilless comps too.

That's alot more counterable that prot pally/DK, you just have to be smart.

[Härken]

This new cleave should be nice!

[Ryoku]

That's alot more counterable than prot pally/DK, you just have to be smart.

Yeah, get the FOK away from that Rogue!

*slaps knee*

[Kaliera]

That's alot more counterable that prot pally/DK, you just have to be smart.

I didn't say it was counterless, I said it was both gladiator viable and skilless. In fact, the comp I run pretty much steals free points from it. That doesn't stop the fact that many teams reaped Frostwyrms for running around spamming Fan of Knives. Also, prot pally / DK makes me want to punch babies. Damn you Grim Toll, damn you and your whole not existing in my warrior's inventory. :(

[Yatokth]

Ugh, don't get me started on Armor Penetration.

Incredibly stupid stat.

[Swerto]

Can't wait for Cataclysm AMIRITE?

WTB Str/crit stacking again.

[Kaliera]

Ugh, don't get me started on Armor Penetration.

Incredibly stupid stat.

And warriors that want it are still going to be able to hit the cap in 3.2.2, they'll just have to use maces instead of axes. ><

[Chikt]

Lets condense Armor Penetration and Spell Penetration into one stat.

Penetration.

That way at least I can get some enjoyment out of being mercilessly slaughtered by people that use it.

[Swerto]

Or let's just ditch penetration, because it's fucking stupid.

[Chikt]

Or let's just dick penetration, because it's fucking.

That's how I read that post. I think I need sleep.

[Yatokth]

And warriors that want it are still going to be able to hit the cap in 3.2.2, they'll just have to use maces instead of axes. ><

Or they can use 2pc T9 and some PvE gear and cap it anyway, still have 850 resi at least, and go swords.

Difference between PvE geared Warr damage and PvP geared Warr damage is just stupid.

[Ryoku]

Lets condense Armor Penetration and Spell Penetration into one stat.

Penetration.

That way at least I can get some enjoyment out of being mercilessly slaughtered by people that use it.

Oh I get it it's joke! Hahaha joke!

ARP is stupid as it is.. But I do like it for the fact that it is another stat to be added into the equation. *Shrug* I don't know, maybe I'm weird for enjoying a mathy aspect to the game.

[Yatokth]

Oh I get it it's joke! Hahaha joke!

ARP is stupid as it is.. But I do like it for the fact that it is another stat to be added into the equation. *Shrug* I don't know, maybe I'm weird for enjoying a mathy aspect to the game.

I like the mathiness too, but the thing is, it's such an imbalanced stat when it basically becomes the entire focus of a single class, to the point of stacking it at the cost of all else, along with the fact that it nearly -requires- PvE to be able to PvP at any decent effectiveness.

That's a problem.

[Swerto]

WTB cataclysm itemization changes now plz.

[Kaliera]

With the focus shifting to 3v3s, it's much less of a problem thankfully. Arp Warrior + Prot Pally is pretty much an unstoppable 2v2 composition. In 3s, depending on your partner, you no longer must stack Arp, given the insane popularity of priest healers and wizard cleaves in general. Hell, even plate cleaves are eaten alive with the proper partner support. Mmm, feral bleeds!

[Ryoku]

I like the mathiness too, but the thing is, it's such an imbalanced stat when it basically becomes the entire focus of a single class, to the point of stacking it at the cost of all else, along with the fact that it nearly -requires- PvE to be able to PvP at any decent effectiveness.

That's a problem.

Oh, I'm not arguing with that. ARP is damn stupid and blatently imbalanced.

I guess I'm just expressing my angst to the stat retardation in Cataclysm. :p

[Swerto]

I actually like what they are doing with Catacllysm, they're ditching 90% of the shitty stats.

[Yatokth]

With the focus shifting to 3v3s, it's much less of a problem thankfully. Arp Warrior + Prot Pally is pretty much an unstoppable 2v2 composition. In 3s, depending on your partner, you no longer must stack Arp, given the insane popularity of priest healers and wizard cleaves in general. Hell, even plate cleaves are eaten alive with the proper partner support. Mmm, feral bleeds!

PvE ArP gear makes Double Healer/Warrior work.

It's dumb that a PvE geared Warrior with capped ArP should be able to outdamage -two people-.

[Kaliera]

PvE ArP gear makes Double Healer/Warrior work.

It's dumb that a PvE geared Warrior with capped ArP should be able to outdamage -two people-.

Eh, if two people are being outdamaged by that one warrior, they're doing it wrong. The bit about that comp that works is a combination of Arp Warriors being able to pressure everything from cloth to plate combined with two healers working together to make a focus target nigh invincible. It pretty much shits all over mana-restricted comps, which are pretty popular these days, and works rather well in making 'unhealable' damage healable by focusing efforts by two.

All that said, I agree in principal that the fact that comps like that can exist is borderline insulting. I do hope Cataclysm can bring about a better medium between stamina, damage, and healing.

[Yatokth]

Eh, if two people are being outdamaged by that one warrior, they're doing it wrong. The bit about that comp that works is a combination of Arp Warriors being able to pressure everything from cloth to plate combined with two healers working together to make a focus target nigh invincible. It pretty much shits all over mana-restricted comps, which are pretty popular these days, and works rather well in making 'unhealable' damage healable by focusing efforts by two.

All that said, I agree in principal that the fact that comps like that can exist is borderline insulting. I do hope Cataclysm can bring about a better medium between stamina, damage, and healing.

Well I'm not against Double Healer/Warrior existing, I'm against it being able to put out similar pressure to a Double DPS cleave while having way more survivability.

One of the best 3s in the BG right now is Warrior/Rsham/ProtPally, basically the RSham BLs and then pressures with Wind Shear and LBs, while the Protadin heals, Freedoms, and then uses Shield/Stuns, couple those with warrior interrupts and LOLPVE damage, and it puts out -stupid- amounts of pressure.

We fought them, and I don't think he did more damage than us per-se, but with two healers it was impossible to take advantage of his PvE gear, and with prot paladins being nigh unkillable, if we swapped to the Shaman, not only did he get heals, but the Warrior would DECIMATE our priest in seconds.

It's stupid that it's a pressure comp, not an outlast comp.

PvE geared Warriors (or anything for that matter really) do too much damage.

THAT SAID--

Double Healer/Warr is probably the closest thing my comp has to a countercomp. I realize it doesn't roll over everything - but I still think Armor Pen on Warrs is stupid.

[Kaliera]

Agreed on all points, though I would say the issue lies way more in the ability for a Prot Paladin to layer on pressure while still doing obnoxiously large amounts of healing. I'm still at a loss for words as to how blizzard managed to think that the spell power and HoJ timers were the worst parts about the Prot build, as opposed to the critical healing boost and the insane pressure applied by glyphed Avenger's Sheild. =/

[Vyn]

Ugh. Cataclysm's changes. Soon there will be not stats. Just intelligence and strength, and every class will have a static health rating at max level, regardless of gear. And then NO ONE can complain. Then, blizz can change mages to have 100 mana, warlocks 100 fel, priests and pallys 100 holy, and druids and shammys 100 balance.

OH GOD DOOMSDAY!!!

But seriously? I watched an ARP Warrior and a Ret Pally do some arena matches...it was fairly retarded. The guys I watched are horrible players, and they lose to anyone who has a brain or knows what a paladin and warrior mean.

[Swerto]

No, not same health regardless of gear. They're just making it so tanking and DPS gear give the same stamina. The big difference in PvP between a healer and DPS, or a tank and DPS, is how they take the damage.

Stats are getting simplified, stupid stats are getting tossed.

Crit and hit will still be here

Str, Stam, Agil, Int, Spir will still be here.

[Yatokth]

No, not same health regardless of gear. They're just making it so tanking and DPS gear give the same stamina. The big difference in PvP between a healer and DPS, or a tank and DPS, is how they take the damage.

Stats are getting simplified, stupid stats are getting tossed.

Crit and hit will still be here

Str, Stam, Agil, Int, Spir will still be here.

Basically this.

It's much easier to balance the game when shit like random Penetrations and minute differences between AP and Str and tossed out, things are based off the few important stats (with still some math for caps, value of crit, etc) and things that are needed will be added via Mastery. (Armor Pen for Warrs, etc)

Not to mention making PvPers have comparable amounts of health regardless of class makes it TONS easier to balance the amount of damage/healing certain abilities do, and also balance out the melee vs. caster dynamic.

More balanced game = more skill-based gameplay. Do want.

[Swerto]

I'm REALLY hoping mastery doesn't become a new ArP I have to dump all other stats in favor of. But the way they are talking about it... it would be like dumping al my points into crit and str because of my spec.

[Vyn]

Avast! Jokin' ain't taken serious aroun' here!

I don' care abou' the stat changes!

[Tsu]

i'm actually not sure what is worse, double healer war or double healer lock

both are like the downsiest comps ever

[Fhenrir]

Eh, if two people are being outdamaged by that one warrior, they're doing it wrong. ...

All that said, I agree in principal that the fact that comps like that can exist is borderline insulting.

Wakka wakka. http://tnraiders.org/forums/images/smilies/emot-fuckyou.gif

[Yichimet]

There really has been a noticeable reduction in queue time for me, and I haven't started a single game under cap for Horde since the patch. A-1 to Blizz.