Kaineds review on The new SoC Cleave for paladins 3.0.7 with chocolate sprinkles.

[Kained]

Well I've been playing on the PTR with the new Seal of Command Cleave I have to say for from what I've seen I'm not impressed it's Base damage ( Swing damage) is to low and the judgment damage is far worse.

They need to either Buff it's judgment damage to make it useful or Increase the base damage on it. Right now with 5k Ap it's only critting for 2.5k on multi targets Witch is pretty damn low considering the judgment only does 2.5-3k crit.

Seal of the righteous is still far better in my opinion since it's base damage for me is still 2k Non crit 4100 Crit. It's judgment damage doesn't bounce either it's one set damage so you will always hit for the same amount making it easier to calculate your kill shots.Also It's swing damage always hits for 1200 ( Unable to crit but still nice.)

It seems ret's will be stuck with seal of level 1 till blizzard smartens up and changes something with seal of command to make it usefull aside from the cleave ( Unless you can seal twist like a mofo go nuts).

Also Crusader strike definitely needs a new effect all it is at the moment is a 97% weapon damage free swing every couple of seconds that doesn't completely NOTHING. I was thinking perhaps give it a reduce spell damage/healing effect that stacks up to 3 times going 10/20/30% reduce that lasts 12 seconds. The only way this effect can be triggered is if the player uses crusader strike while the enemy is casting ( Similar to uh.... Overpower you dig?)

Any opinions, questions,comments?

[Yatokth]

Righteousness burst is the same as Blood burst - Blizz didn't actually solve anything they wanted to solve, and until it becomes solved you won't get any utility realistically.

=/

[Leoren]

Righteousness burst is the same as Blood burst - Blizz didn't actually solve anything they wanted to solve, and until it becomes solved you won't get any utility realistically.

=/

Well technically they made us give up a few nice PvP / defensive oriented talents deep into prot if you wanted to milk the most out of SoR with 5/5 into Seals of the Pure, so they at least compromised rets to make up for that burst to some degree.

Still didn't change up the play style though, that much is granted.

[Yatokth]

Well technically they made us give up a few nice PvP / defensive oriented talents deep into prot if you wanted to milk the most out of SoR with 5/5 into Seals of the Pure, so they at least compromised rets to make up for that burst to some degree.

Still didn't change up the play style though, that much is granted.

Point, you lose Imp HoJ to get that burst, but the class is basically neutered without it.

So it's less like an actual choice and more like that time in BC when they made Enrage and Deathwish no longer stack - straight up unavoidable nerf.

[Kained]

Well technically they made us give up a few nice PvP / defensive oriented talents deep into prot if you wanted to milk the most out of SoR with 5/5 into Seals of the Pure, so they at least compromised rets to make up for that burst to some degree.

Still didn't change up the play style though, that much is granted.

Yep Imp HoJ and probably one of the more usefull talents in the prot tree for ret survival the 2/2 in to imp sacred shield with is VERY noticable.

I still run the old 0/20/51 spec just because the survival is so much more reliable in arena and in world.

[Swerto]

Paladins would have to lose their ability to heal to get a mortal strike, blizzard said this at Blizzcon, same with Death Knights. Warriors and rogues get the healing reduction abilities they have because of the lack of healing they have.

[Yatokth]

Paladins would have to lose their ability to heal to get a mortal strike, blizzard said this at Blizzcon, same with Death Knights. Warriors and rogues get the healing reduction abilities they have because of the lack of healing they have.

Where was mortal strike mentioned...?

[Kained]

Where was mortal strike mentioned...?

I'm going to mortal strike your face homie with my FOOT

[Serenity]

Where was mortal strike mentioned...?


Also Crusader strike definitely needs a new effect all it is at the moment is a 97% weapon damage free swing every couple of seconds that doesn't completely NOTHING. I was thinking perhaps give it a reduce spell damage/healing effect that stacks up to 3 times going 10/20/30% reduce that lasts 12 seconds. The only way this effect can be triggered is if the player uses crusader strike while the enemy is casting ( Similar to uh.... Overpower you dig?)

(The message you have posted is too short.)

Edit for slight on-topic-ness: From what I've read here, and before on arenajunkies, I didn't expect much from SoC. I just hope they buff it to usability eventually so I can go ahead and drop SotP and get my Imp. HoJ back!

[Fhenrir]

Also Crusader strike definitely needs a new effect all it is at the moment is a 97% weapon damage free swing every couple of seconds that doesn't completely NOTHING. I was thinking perhaps give it a reduce spell damage/healing effect that stacks up to 3 times going 10/20/30% reduce that lasts 12 seconds. The only way this effect can be triggered is if the player uses crusader strike while the enemy is casting ( Similar to uh.... Overpower you dig?)

I usually disagree with this argument. While I can see the logic behind it, I think most people take it too seriously, or take it personally to Ret as a spec. A classic example of extra attacks without bonus in other classes is Whirlwind, which has no bonus attached beyond hitting multiple targets and it still frequently used on single targets.

While I'm in complete agreement that it would be cool to have a bonus attached to Crusader Strike, I tend to disagree with people that say it needs a bonus. Especially a Mortal Strike style effect; no thanks to that. People seem to underestimate the usefulness of an extra attack in the armada, and ret paladins aren't lacking in things they can throw around besides.


Random note: Why is "The" capitalized in the title of this thread?

[Yatokth]

Random note: Why is "The" capitalized in the title of this thread?

For The lulz

[Kained]

For The lulz

thank you yat. people just dont understand art these days

[Saulle]

Actually, I've got to admit, since I've decided not to put a valuable point into SoC, and not being satisfied with SoV/SoM for PvP, I've resorted to SoR, which has worked out surprisingly well. It could be because I also put points into Seals of the Pure, but at the same time, I just find it much easier to burst people down due to the steady stream of damage.

Alternatively, as a footnote, one could try the old "sealweave" between SoV/M and SoR. I doubt it would work well though, plus it would cost too much mana, which could ultimately make the difference between victory or defeat. Just a thought.

[Yatokth]

SoR is the current seal of choice for all PvP retadins actually, you stumbled upon the norm Saulle. XP

Seal twisting isn't really that good since they put Judgement on the GCD (Not to mention Crusader Strike CD reduction, more spent GCDs), and upped seal mana cost.

[Vyn]

I miss sealtwisting.

[Saulle]

SoR is the current seal of choice for all PvP retadins actually, you stumbled upon the norm Saulle. XP


Dang, and here I was thinking I could contribute something useful. Oh well. :P

But yeah, after seeing these posts and confirming it, SoR looks like the way to go for the next little while. On the bright side, I may finally be able to get a swing or two off on you Yaktoth, before you kill me.