PTR PvP Experiences

[Yatokth]

If the resilience change was a woman, I would marry it.

GOD it's so awesome.

I have yet to arena with it, but in duels, it's just a welcome change from the gibfest of before - I was actually creaming bad DKs and Rets (Almost beat this Ret with T2 weapon, then I realized I hadn't set up my stance bars so the only stance that had full abilities was battle stance, and I didn't even have the stances themselves bound so I couldn't change without clicking. D: He still had 3K HP left at the end - And to the Rets, he wasn't that great, good ones will still give me competition.) which may have something to do with their nerfs but DAMN IT FELT GOOD. Way it should be.

I did Isle of Conquest once, didn't impress me. Seems like a more spread out AV with less shit to do and more places for Horde to fail at D. Laaaaaaaame.

My only concern atm for next season is immortal healers, but fortunately I won't be 2sing in any serious manner next season (I picked up a 2s with my druid from 5s the other day... such a fuckin stupid bracket. 3s is so much better.) so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

GIVE RET PALADINS AN INTERRUPT.

That is all.

P.S. I'm excited for S7. :D

[Skaadvik]

This news makes me feel better about the patch. How about Holy Paladins in PvP? I suppose they wouldn't be much different in short-term because the changes are more about long-term mana regeneration nerfing, but I'd like to hear anything you've noticed.

[Yatokth]

Haven't fought any Holydins, but the Ardent Defender buff makes the Prot/Holy spec even better, and resil change helps healers most of all.

I'd say you're in a good spot.

[Budge]

Is Resil so good that Rogues would be better off picking it up? In arenas I assume yes, but in BGs, I can't do enough damage in full PvP gear... whereas I crit and hit really hard in my PvE gear.

[Okhu]

Is Resil so good that Rogues would be better off picking it up? In arenas I assume yes, but in BGs, I can't do enough damage in full PvP gear... whereas I crit and hit really hard in my PvE gear.

This I'd like to know as well.

[Yatokth]

Rogues in duels could still use PvE gear cause they did so much damage in a stunlock - for BGs you could get away with it prolly, but in arenas you'll need PvP.

[Naheal]

GIVE RET PALADINS AN INTERRUPT.


Next patch: Paladins get an interrupt. It shares a CD with bubble, wings, HoJ and repentance.

[Lailinarel]

Next patch: Paladins get an interrupt. It shares a CD with bubble, wings, HoJ and repentance.

Much more reasonable would be to take HoJ off of the GCD, thus turning it into probably the single most powerful CC ability in the game in the hands of a skilled player. In the hands of a bad ret pally, it would still be just a stun. Though honestly, given the state of the class (note I have NOT seen ret on the ptr) I don't believe that they need any additional control abilities. More balanced I would think would be to take repentance off the GCD, it could be used to stop someone from completing a spell mid cast, while not hurting your output on them, or CC someone's team mate with a quick target switch mid swing / gcd. (Still not really hurting your output)

[Chikt]

Any thoughts on Shamamamanans? I've yet to transfer Dio.

[Gorymoru]

Wow...this makes a little apprehensive, yet excited at the same time. Since I've gained a little resil (436), I've begun to dominate the BGs that I enter in damage and/or HKs and KBs on my destro lock. I only wonder if this will mean I'll survive much longer, while nerfing the amount of people I can kill. -shrugs- I'm forced to admit while warlocks can't really take a hit, and have nothing to stop a bladestorming warrior, destro locks at least really can bring a chain-crit storm from hell....-snickers evilly-

[Yatokth]

Wow...this makes a little apprehensive, yet excited at the same time. Since I've gained a little resil (436), I've begun to dominate the BGs that I enter in damage and/or HKs and KBs on my destro lock. I only wonder if this will mean I'll survive much longer, while nerfing the amount of people I can kill. -shrugs- I'm forced to admit while warlocks can't really take a hit, and have nothing to stop a bladestorming warrior, destro locks at least really can bring a chain-crit storm from hell....-snickers evilly-

Demo port.

It's annoying, but you basically have to set up every fight you get into.

[Gorymoru]

Which isn't a problem in world PvP when I know it's coming...but in BGs where I have to keep running, ((Such as SotA)), it becomes a problem. Not saying you're wrong, the idea is sound, it's just it doesn't work in the scenarios I'm regularly in.

Naturally in arenas and duels that's a different story. Though charge>intercept>annoying talent>chargechargecharge does get agitating.

[Okhu]

Any BG you have to defend in its pretty viable to use Demo portal... all you have to do is defend.

Defense is more fun then offense anyways.

If you're watching a gate, put the portal where the gun turret is.

When people ride to your gate to plant bombs jump down howl them away and portal back up to safety. :|

[Yatokth]

Which isn't a problem in world PvP when I know it's coming...but in BGs where I have to keep running, ((Such as SotA)), it becomes a problem. Not saying you're wrong, the idea is sound, it's just it doesn't work in the scenarios I'm regularly in.

Naturally in arenas and duels that's a different story. Though charge>intercept>annoying talent>chargechargecharge does get agitating.

Strand is ghey anyways.

[Skaadvik]

Strand is ghey anyways.

quoted for truth. I really hope the new BG is better done that strand, I barely stand to play it.

[Chikt]

So I played a little tonight myself.

PvP is just... amazing. The resilience change makes fights so different. In all my hateful gear and nearing 1000 resilience I had a 3 minute battle with a Feral Druid. Usually Feral Druids own me, but this was actually a FIGHT. Were it not for the lag on the server (I had a ping of over 900) I honestly believe I would have easily won that fight.

The Totem Bar need a LOT of work. It feels... terrible compared to an addon like Totemtimers. The ability to drop four totems at once is amazingly great, but if you want to drop a totem lower in your stack, you can't just pop up the menu and click on it. You've actually got to click to open the menu, click the totem to bring it to the front of the stack, and then click it again to actually drop it. It's really not functional.

[Heidenreich]

Any thoughts on Shamamamanans? I've yet to transfer Dio.

Abusive and another buddy of mine copied Shamans onto the PTR (Abusive his real character, the other a premade character). Enhancement simply raped people, Elemental actually survived a hell of a lot longer then they do now when a melee gets in their face.

I couldn't really say anything about Resto since procs are bugged and Earthshield was staying at 10 stacks and just constantly healing.

[Heidenreich]

I don't PvP enough to know better (I spend way to many hours raiding to do anything other then dalies or stand around Dalaran looking pretty), but are any Ret Paladins really unhappy with the lack luster of the new Seal of Command?

I tested it in both PvE and PvP gear and the damage was horrible. I still can't see Seal of Command being good for anything more then a waste of 1 talent point like it is currently.

On the other hand, when I tried Seal of Vengeance, I was simply destroying everything in my path. Divine Storm in a group of people and you have it applied to 4 people at once. Single target and I had my 5 stack up in no time, pop wings and game over.

Then again Seal of Vengeance ticks for a retarded amount in my PvE gear and I wouldn't expect it to tick as hard in PvP gear, but between 1300+ ticks of Vengeance, 800 ticks of Righteous Vengeance, the use of Exo again, and the new CD with Crusader Strike I was ripping right through just about anything in my path.

[Gorymoru]

Cause retadin's didn't already rip through anything and everything. -coughs-

[Bahlmoral]

This news makes me feel better about the patch. How about Holy Paladins in PvP? I suppose they wouldn't be much different in short-term because the changes are more about long-term mana regeneration nerfing, but I'd like to hear anything you've noticed.

I was curious of that too. I hope they do something better for Holy PvP come the next patch, because I think it's sad that a 32/39 Holy/Ret or 51/20 Prot/Holy is better in PvP than going deep holy...

[Bahlmoral]

I don't PvP enough to know better (I spend way to many hours raiding to do anything other then dalies or stand around Dalaran looking pretty), but are any Ret Paladins really unhappy with the lack luster of the new Seal of Command?


I thought I was misreading it, but does the new propsed SoC not do insta crit against stunned targets?

[Kaldore]

Anyone get smacked by a monster Shield Slam crit from a PvProt Warrior yet? ;)

[Heidenreich]

I thought I was misreading it, but does the new propsed SoC not do insta crit against stunned targets?

Newp, no more guaranteed crit on a stunned target.

[Phim]

The new Seal of Command sucks, and honestly if it goes live the way it is, Ret paladins, in my opinion, will be completely broken.

1. The damage done is now on every hit yes, but hits way less for what Seal of Blood does now.

2. Judgement of Command: Probably the only "saving grace" about the *current* JoC is that it does substantially more damage than JoB and is a guaranteed crit (and AoW proc) on a stunned target.

In 3.2 they have nerfed JoC damage *substantially*, and there is not indication that it is now a guaranteed crit on stun.

3. Seal of Vengence = worthless for Arena. Quite simply, if you hit someone with SoV, you've just given them 15 second cc immunity. (Repentance)


If the 3.2 changes go live as is, it will be the end for Arena Ret paladins.

For more information read: http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=95105


White swing
From 100% WD phys + 48% WD as holy
To ....100% WD phys + 36% WD as holy

Divine Storm
From 110% WD phys + 48% WD as holy
To ....110% WD phys + 36% WD as holy

Judgement
From (26% WD + 11% AP + 18% SP) as holy
To ....(19% WD + 8% AP + 13% SP) as holy

Crusader Strike
From 138% WD phys + 48% WD as holy
To ......94% WD phys + 36% WD as holy
*CD was lowered from 6s to 4s

Exorcism
1028 + 15% AP + 15% SP as holy
*Now castable on players.

[Heidenreich]

The new Seal of Command sucks, and honestly if it goes live the way it is, Ret paladins, in my opinion, will be completely broken.

1. The damage done is now on every hit yes, but hits way less for what Seal of Blood does now.

2. Judgement of Command: Probably the only "saving grace" about the *current* JoC is that it does substantially more damage than JoB and is a guaranteed crit (and AoW proc) on a stunned target.

In 3.2 they have nerfed JoC damage *substantially*, and there is not indication that it is now a guaranteed crit on stun.

3. Seal of Vengence = worthless for Arena. Quite simply, if you hit someone with SoV, you've just given them 15 second cc immunity. (Repentance)


If the 3.2 changes go live as is, it will be the end for Arena Ret paladins.

For more information read: http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=95105

IF IT"S POSTED ON THE INTERWEB IT MUST BE TRUE!

Not really though. Seal of Command is lack luster just like it is now, but if you are any good at playing a Ret Paladin and I don't just mean roll your face across the keyboard (like 98% of Paladins) then you will be just fine!

The change is great in my opinion, cause it will send all the FoTM rerollers back out to the pasture to go roll some other class. Same with all the Ret Paladins who actually have no clue how to play other then smashing their face against the keyboard in a retarded manner.

THERE WILL BE A DEFINING LINE BETWEEN A GOOD AND A BAD RET PALADIN! Plain and Simple.

As for Seal of Vengeance. Man if you see the kind of damage you can honestly do with it. CC isn't an issue, because you won't need it most of the time. A 2 Stack of Vengeance is hitting as hard for me as Martyr live right now. A 5 stack just makes babies cry every time I judge, not including the DoT damage thrown in there as well.

NAH NAH NAH NAH! NAH NAH NAH NAH! HEY HEY HEY! GOODBYE! NAH NAH NAH NAH! NAH NAH NAH NAH! HEY HEY HEY! GOODBYE! Peace out Bad Retribution Paladins! <3

hmm my sig is out of date again. :(

[Okhu]

THERE WILL BE A DEFINING LINE BETWEEN A GOOD AND A Dead RET PALADIN! Plain and Simple.

Fix'd that bottom line for you.

[Heidenreich]

Fix'd that bottom line for you.

I LIKE IT!

[Bruuin]

NAH NAH NAH NAH! NAH NAH NAH NAH! HEY HEY HEY! GOODBYE! NAH NAH NAH NAH! NAH NAH NAH NAH! HEY HEY HEY! GOODBYE! Peace out Bad Retribution Paladins! <3

YOU ARE SO MEAN TO ME HEID! D:

[Lailinarel]

I look forward to the changes personally, I've only recently gotten used to playing ret in pvp, and I've enjoyed it a lot, but it's... well it's too easy. In my mediocre gear even, I sometimes hop on my warrior and go duel a DK or ret pally just so I can have my $#it pushed in and remember what it feels like to have dirt rammed down my throat by someone who doesn't need skill or a clue to kick my ass.

[Phim]

IF IT"S POSTED ON THE INTERWEB IT MUST BE TRUE!

Not really though. Seal of Command is lack luster just like it is now, but if you are any good at playing a Ret Paladin and I don't just mean roll your face across the keyboard (like 98% of Paladins) then you will be just fine!

The change is great in my opinion, cause it will send all the FoTM rerollers back out to the pasture to go roll some other class. Same with all the Ret Paladins who actually have no clue how to play other then smashing their face against the keyboard in a retarded manner.

THERE WILL BE A DEFINING LINE BETWEEN A GOOD AND A BAD RET PALADIN! Plain and Simple.

As for Seal of Vengeance. Man if you see the kind of damage you can honestly do with it. CC isn't an issue, because you won't need it most of the time. A 2 Stack of Vengeance is hitting as hard for me as Martyr live right now. A 5 stack just makes babies cry every time I judge, not including the DoT damage thrown in there as well.

NAH NAH NAH NAH! NAH NAH NAH NAH! HEY HEY HEY! GOODBYE! NAH NAH NAH NAH! NAH NAH NAH NAH! HEY HEY HEY! GOODBYE! Peace out Bad Retribution Paladins! <3

hmm my sig is out of date again. :(

Just to be clear, I am speaking from a PVP perspective.


Right now, all we have is burst. Burst is what wins us matches, because that is what allows us fast switches + cc to win games.

Without burst, we have nothing. Im actually happy that they are evening out our burst for sustained dps, but they need to give us another tool in return. We have no MS, we have no interrupt and now we have no burst.

Defensive utility alone cannot win games, in the end you either need to A) get a kill or B) run the opposing team oom. As 3.2 currently stands we have no way to accomplish either. An MS or casting interrupt is what is needed, not an overall nerf to damage without any compensation.

And yes, just like you, I have played Retribution through the "dark ages" of BC and onward both PvP and PvE. However, I am not hoping to get hit with the nerf bat just because it will encourage the bad people to reroll. I simply want to play my favorite (and only) class to its full potential on a LEVEL playing field...

I agree that Retribution can be a "faceroll" class to some people, but there is still a high learning curve and a great many tools at our disposal that are only best used at the right time and place, as well as many tricks (judge before sheep) that still greatly separate the "good" players from the "bad".

[Anorah]

Regarding the changes to Retribution on the PTR, specifically towards pvp.

We will still have burst, if we can stick to a target and properly utilize some of our defensive spells. Freedom, cleanse, etc. These can and will be countered by good players of course and that's where we must rely on our teammates and perhaps offer an off heal or enjoy the new excorcism procs. It remains to be seen how viable SoV will be or how easily players will be able to remove it (if they have a class that can)/kite us around for 15 seconds +, though if we can get kited for that long we'd probably be killed anyways with or without having to rely on a ticking time bomb.

The idea's they have for Seal of Command are interesting, but in order for it to be appreciated by the Ret community at large it will have to see some form of change from it's current state on the PTR. Wether or not that's necessary is another matter. I think they're going for a "use it when you can't stick to a target or need more up front burst" which.. it lacks a bit. I for one still use it in PvP despite Blood/Martyr being arguably better. And I for one still beat most people who don't, at least in a 1v1/2v2 setting. Then we get up against Druid/Dk in.. about 86% of our matches and that's just fun, a rant for another time. I'll give SoC a try when it goes live, it's been good to me since beta. Save the ship jumping for when it's proven it sucks on live.

Crusader Strike, lower CD.. lower damage. Same sustained DPS from what I've tested. More swings = more crits = more AOW procs. However.. in jousting and swing timer dancing this lower CD/Damage can be a bit of a liability, but it's not useless at least.

The rest of the changes.. meh. I'm still going to be ret. I'm still going to do well with it. I don't like being nerfed but I'm biased. If it can be more challenging, works for me. What would I give ret/what do I feel it lacks? A more reliable interrupt, repent and HoJ aren't really quick enough to get clutch spells when they're being used to supplement our damage/burst at least in a 1v1. Some would argue that it's not necessary but, when we have no other way to really pressure a healer (which is my main concern after the patch) outside of up front burst (which will also be changed to more complex burst) you notice it a lot more. We don't have any way outside of those two abilities (which have pretty high CD's) to really stop someone from getting themselves back to full. I for one don't enjoy having to kill someone in the span of one stun or be forced to wait another minute to try again. Yes, it's possible, but that doesn't mean it's not insanely frustrating or super consistent unless they're severely under geared or don't have a pvp trinket/other way to cast through stuns or escape them, or are just bad. I don't know if it's entirely necessary, but some more offensive utility would be a boon to the spec for sure. Would it make it OP? I don't think so. If they want to get us away from killing someone so quickly, we'll need more or different ways to make our damage meaningful. SoV could be argued to be that change as well, we'll see how it all pans out.

PvE, seems we've been buffed a touch. Yippee.

[Phim]

What would I give ret/what do I feel it lacks? A more reliable interrupt, repent and HoJ aren't really quick enough to get clutch spells when they're being used to supplement our damage/burst at least in a 1v1. Some would argue that it's not necessary but, when we have no other way to really pressure a healer (which is my main concern after the patch) outside of up front burst (which will also be changed to more complex burst) you notice it a lot more. We don't have any way outside of those two abilities (which have pretty high CD's) to really stop someone from getting themselves back to full. I for one don't enjoy having to kill someone in the span of one stun or be forced to wait another minute to try again. Yes, it's possible, but that doesn't mean it's not insanely frustrating or super consistent unless they're severely under geared or don't have a pvp trinket/other way to cast through stuns or escape them, or are just bad. I don't know if it's entirely necessary, but some more offensive utility would be a boon to the spec for sure. Would it make it OP? I don't think so. If they want to get us away from killing someone so quickly, we'll need more or different ways to make our damage meaningful. SoV could be argued to be that change as well, we'll see how it all pans out.

PvE, seems we've been buffed a touch. Yippee.


I couldn't agree more =)

[Skaadvik]

I am a straight up facerolling fool when it comes to Ret PvP, and I'm not afraid to admit it. If I can't burst something down by mashing my keyboard, it's prolly gonna kill me. My ret set has also been collecting dust since two weeks before Ulduar. That said, I think they have the right idea overall with what they're doing to Ret Paladins, thought it's probably going to need some tweaking before perfection.

[Anorah]

Please bear in mind I'm speaking purely from a 1v1 standpoint regarding the more reliable interrupt. I don't feel we'll be useless in a team setting even if we don't get it after this patch.

[Yatokth]

Ret needs an interrupt.

And SoV damage is pro. SoC damage on PTR is lackluster w/o wings (and SoV damage w/ wings is just disgusting)

But yeah, interrupt would definitely add some depth and a much needed way to kill healers - it's not like you'll be facerolling them down or anything, they will just have to watch it instead of loltank you.

[Naheal]

Ret needs an interrupt.

And SoV damage is pro. SoC damage on PTR is lackluster w/o wings (and SoV damage w/ wings is just disgusting)

But yeah, interrupt would definitely add some depth and a much needed way to kill healers - it's not like you'll be facerolling them down or anything, they will just have to watch it instead of loltank you.

People bitch enough about ret's "defensive abilities" (bubble) that ret will never see a full interrupt.

With the proposed changes, how is prot looking for pvp right now?

[Yatokth]

People bitch enough about ret's "defensive abilities" (bubble) that ret will never see a full interrupt.

With the proposed changes, how is prot looking for pvp right now?

What quote of mine do you have in my sig?

I don't care who QQs, I want a balanced game, and to be balanced, Ret needs a reasonably short CD Melee interrupt. 20 seconds or something. Doesn't have to be a long lockout, just something to close the last gap of HP when a healer gets low.

And Prot is looking to be grossly OP. Woohoo Block Value and non-clickable Last Stand! :D

[Naheal]

What quote of mine do you have in my sig?


Here's the thread that the quote's from. (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?p=284433#post284433)



I don't care who QQs, I want a balanced game, and to be balanced, Ret needs a reasonably short CD Melee interrupt. 20 seconds or something. Doesn't have to be a long lockout, just something to close the last gap of HP when a healer gets low.

And Prot is looking to be grossly OP. Woohoo Block Value and non-clickable Last Stand! :D

I agree with the whole "balanced game > fixing people's bitches" but that's not always how it works and you know it. Ret needs something like that, I'll agree, but I'm saying that it's not going to happen just because of the sheer amount of whining that people can manage about something small

[Yatokth]

Here's the thread that the quote's from. (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?p=284433#post284433)




I agree with the whole "balanced game > fixing people's bitches" but that's not always how it works and you know it. Ret needs something like that, I'll agree, but I'm saying that it's not going to happen just because of the sheer amount of whining that people can manage about something small

Blizz doesn't balance classes around whining, they have both said and proved this many times.

You may be able to cite instances where Blizz 'caved in to the whiners' - but those are simply just Blizz doing what's best for the game, and the community ta large agreeing - there's at least as much, if not more, instances of the community bitching about something and it remaining unchanged, you just don't hear about it cause people get tired of whining.

Not that I don't think the game has problems, but I definitely believe Blizz designs their game based mostly on their own opinions, not the community's. They take feedback, but hardly unconditionally.

[Kained]

If the resilience change was a woman, I would marry it.

GOD it's so awesome.

I have yet to arena with it, but in duels, it's just a welcome change from the gibfest of before - I was actually creaming bad DKs and Rets (Almost beat this Ret with T2 weapon, then I realized I hadn't set up my stance bars so the only stance that had full abilities was battle stance, and I didn't even have the stances themselves bound so I couldn't change without clicking. D: He still had 3K HP left at the end - And to the Rets, he wasn't that great, good ones will still give me competition.) which may have something to do with their nerfs but DAMN IT FELT GOOD. Way it should be.

I did Isle of Conquest once, didn't impress me. Seems like a more spread out AV with less shit to do and more places for Horde to fail at D. Laaaaaaaame.

My only concern atm for next season is immortal healers, but fortunately I won't be 2sing in any serious manner next season (I picked up a 2s with my druid from 5s the other day... such a fuckin stupid bracket. 3s is so much better.) so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

GIVE RET PALADINS AN INTERRUPT.

That is all.

P.S. I'm excited for S7. :D
HELL YA

[Irontoe]

You may be able to cite instances where Blizz 'caved in to the whiners'...

Plague event.

[Raziel]

Plague event.

This one? (http://wowaids.ytmnd.com)

[Irontoe]

This one? (http://wowaids.ytmnd.com)

No, the one where they caved to the whiners (http://www.wowwiki.com/Zombie_Infestation), not the one where they fixed a bug.

[Bahlmoral]

Oh for a second I though the link was going to be where they changed AV so Alliance in this BG would stop boycotting it.