First world-wide pandemic in the making?

[opalexian]

http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=7242 (Yeah, I know it's a blog, but it has 3 very good links off it.)

The virus is apparently a strain of influenza that contains bird, swine, and human flu strains, and may be mutating very rapidly. Potentially really scary shit. Conspiracy? o_O

[Xiphus]

Please, ALL STRAINS of influenza virus mutate very rapidly. They participate in antigenic shifts and antigenic drifts on a daily basis. That is the main reason why we don't have vaccines against influenza virus. They mutate so rapidly that whatever vaccines you make today is probably obsolete in a year or so (or even sooner, like a month or so). It's also why you keep getting sick from influenza during the infuenza seasons. They keep mutating so much that the antibodies our immune system produced before to combat the previous infection no longer works for the next, newer infection.

It's just a matter of time before a pandemic occurs. We already had several flu pandemics (Hong Kong Flu, Chinese Flu, etc.), with the Spanish flu being the deadliest.

Why do you think governments are scrambling to stockpile Tamiflu anti-neuraminidase drugs (and there's already evidence that the H5N1 virus is starting to gain resistance to the drug) and urge the medical research community to research on new, more effective drugs and vaccines to combat the impending avian flu pandemic?

This is neither the first nor the last pandemic. We have hell alot of pandemics, starting with the biblical plague, with the Bubonic Plague achieving records never before seen during the Dark Ages, which is further topped by the Spanish Flu after World War I. Get ready for the coming Avian Flu pandemic, and then another pandemic after that. And after that. And after after that.

For more information about the Influenza virus and how they so rapidly mutate that they keep staying one step ahead of our vaccines (and immune system), frustrate immunologists everywhere and infect species they never infect before, go to a library and read a medical microbiology textbook. Oh, and make sure you read the other sections as well. There's alot of really scary shit in there.

I highly recommend Mim's textbook, the latest edition, for all your microbe and virus-related apocalypse needs.

And being honest, i'm not surprised about this new development. Swine strains infect humans more readily due to us both being mammals, thus being very similar. If an avian flu strain finally mutates enough to infect swines, it will very readily infect humans as well. In fact, for the H5N1 virus to infect humans efficiently, it must also be able to infect swines very efficiently (and THAT will happen, eventually). The approaching avian flu pandemic probably is going to raise the death toll of birds, humans and swines (and most probably monkeys and apes) worldwide as well as destroy the livelihood (and lives) of animal farmers (pigs or poultry).

Yes, the world is a scary place, what with the many different types of viruses and bacteria to kill us with and how quite alot of them keep developing new ways to counter all our antibiotics, anti-viral drugs, anti-toxins, vaccinations as well as our most powerful countermeasure, our IMMUNE SYSTEM (and one virus is designed to DESTROY OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM. I'm looking at you, HIV!) to kill us like mangy dogs we are. And it has more than just those to kill us with. I will happily point you towards the multitude of huge chunks of space rocks that keeps whizzing through Earth's orbit, the drifting black holes which number thousands and still counting as well as the gathering nitrites in our seas waiting to erupt into the air and suffocate us all and the ever-present risk that our sun will one day expand into a red giant and consume us as well as the possibility that our planet's magnetic field sizzles out and leaves us at the mercy of being roasted by solar flares. Oh, and our ozone layer is thinning and we are all going to have skin cancer parties and then die.

Yes, humanity is doomed. Humanity is always doomed. We don't even need the Ruinous Powers, Cthulhu, Tyranids, Necrons or brutal theological governments to doom us, the universe is already very happy to let us choose our choices to doom ourselves. It's old news. Move along.

Now excuse me, I have to go write my will.

[Medduren]

Awesome stuff

Needs a sticky, IMO.

[Irontoe]

Ha. We're all fucked.

[Xiphus]

We always are, man. I'm wondering just how much further humanity can push the date of FUBAR before we run out of calendars.

[Swerto]

2011

Mark my words.

[Szordrin]

I doubt flu will be the pandemic.

[Chikt]

*Sneezes*

[The_Golden_Wolf]

Well, I know not to get flu shots for sure. Nice try NWO.

[Malethor]

This is putting a damper on summer plans for Mexico :(

[Keraph]

Quickly, to Madagascar!

[Xiphus]

This is putting a damper on summer plans for Mexico :(

You can go to Mexico. Invest in masks, always wash your hands and stay the hell away from sneezing people and any animal.

Or if you are really paranoid, invest in a HAZMAT suit.

[Malethor]

You can go to Mexico. Invest in masks, always wash your hands and stay the hell away from sneezing people and any animal.

Or if you are really paranoid, invest in a HAZMAT suit.

That doesn't sound like a fun vacation :-/

Kinda makes the all-inclusive 5-star resort seem almost pointless.

[Szordrin]

WHAT?! SWINE FLU??? WHAT HAPPENED TO BIRD FLU? oh man! SARS!

[Cabriel]

Bacon, anyone?

[Malethor]

Clearly it's a jewish conspiracy in order to push us gentiles into their kosher diet.

[Nadea]

Oh goddamnit I dont wanna die!! >.>

[Xaraphyne]

Yes, the world is a scary place, what with the many different types of viruses and bacteria to kill us with and how quite alot of them keep developing new ways to counter all our antibiotics, anti-viral drugs, anti-toxins, vaccinations as well as our most powerful countermeasure, our IMMUNE SYSTEM (and one virus is designed to DESTROY OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM. I'm looking at you, HIV!) to kill us like mangy dogs we are. And it has more than just those to kill us with. I will happily point you towards the multitude of huge chunks of space rocks that keeps whizzing through Earth's orbit, the drifting black holes which number thousands and still counting as well as the gathering nitrites in our seas waiting to erupt into the air and suffocate us all and the ever-present risk that our sun will one day expand into a red giant and consume us as well as the possibility that our planet's magnetic field sizzles out and leaves us at the mercy of being roasted by solar flares. Oh, and our ozone layer is thinning and we are all going to have skin cancer parties and then die.

And if nothing else, we can always count on the inevitable heat-death of the universe.

[Yichimet]

http://xkcd.com/574/

[Cabriel]

So.

A girl in my office left early today to take her daughter to the hospital. She's been throwing up and sick since she got back from New York this weekend.

New York has cases of swine flu.

...

...hold me.

[Gorvena]

Clearly it's a jewish conspiracy in order to push us gentiles into their kosher diet.
Oh, thanks for that one. I guess you'll also go into the whole, "The Jews killed Jesus." thing next...

[Yichimet]

Iiiiiiit's a joooooooke aboooooooout piiiiiiiiiiiigs.

[Gorvena]

Oh, I understand the intent, but the delivery was lacking.

[Malethor]

I hear wackos with such theories every day. The same people that worship people like Alex Jones and think the British Royal Family are alien-lizard people that control the masses via telepathy. I thought it was funny.

[Yichimet]

think the British Royal Family are alien-lizard people that control the masses via telepathy.

...they aren't?

Seriously, though, it's a badass flu that'll probably make a bunch of people sick. It may continue to make people the most exposed people die: elderly, young, poor. Thank your lucky stars that even though your health care system is exorbitantly, extortionistically expensive, it's pretty freakin' awesome. It probably won't end human life.

[opalexian]

Say what you want, but this was bad enough that the CDC has been saying 'don't panic, buuuuuuuuut...' all day.

One case reported in Ohio as of this morning. Woot.

[Xiphus]

That doesn't sound like a fun vacation :-/

Kinda makes the all-inclusive 5-star resort seem almost pointless.

But I want to see all your vacation photos in a HAZMAT suit. Wouldn't it be interesting to sweat profusely under the sun while walking on the beach because YOU ARE WEARING A HAZMAT SUIT?


Say what you want, but this was bad enough that the CDC has been saying 'don't panic, buuuuuuuuut...' all day.

One case reported in Ohio as of this morning. Woot.

If the reservoir of this strain of influenza virus are pigs only and no feathered thing is involved, it wouldn't be a problem for the local governments to contain the spread and quarantine everybody who sneezed and had a fever that day as well as every single person who had gotten within spitting distance of him without wearing a HAZMAT suit. This way, we can limit the spread to at most triple digit.

However, if the reservoir are birds........ Well, run in circles screaming.

[Brakogar]

The Secret society of Templars have genetically engineered this decease to 'trim' the world's human population as it has grown to unsustainably large and are not technologically advanced enough to colonize other worlds.

[Aphraelle]

Influenza viruses mutate in part due to reassortment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassortment) of RNA segments between different strains, including strains normally endemic to different species, also known as antigenic shift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigenic_shift).

There's also a Flash (I think) graphic illustration here (http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/animations/subunit/sub_frames.htm). Keep pressing Play to advance the page.

This outbreak's virus apparently has both swine and avian RNA mixed in with the human. Oh joy.

[Vilmah]

Clearly it's a jewish conspiracy in order to push us gentiles into their kosher diet.

<3 <3 <3

[Boudika]

they shut some school down here with something like 14 reported cases? I generally listen and pay attention to this sort of thing, but for some reason, Im not on top of this and Its in my city.

[Xiphus]

Influenza viruses mutate in part due to reassortment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassortment) of RNA segments between different strains, including strains normally endemic to different species, also known as antigenic shift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigenic_shift).

There's also a Flash (I think) graphic illustration here (http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/animations/subunit/sub_frames.htm). Keep pressing Play to advance the page.

This outbreak's virus apparently has both swine and avian RNA mixed in with the human. Oh joy.

Brother (or Sister)! You have discovered the truth! However, you have also discovered the horror! The Influenza strain can spread through birds! We must devise ways to protect ourselves from the coming darkness!

Sigmar's willing, we will not fall to the agents of Nurgle!

Burn the infected! Cull the birds! Purge the swine! Wash those hands! Use the napkins!

Do our duty! Safeguard lives!

Sigmar protects!

Note: Any PETA and other animal rights agents, as well as farmers, who opposed this action to control and contain the spread of the taint shall be considered attempting to obstruct the effort, and therefore shall all be purged as heretics. Let none oppose this action. Sigmar protects.

[Agnarr]

So.

A girl in my office left early today to take her daughter to the hospital. She's been throwing up and sick since she got back from New York this weekend.

New York has cases of swine flu.

...

...hold me.

No, you're INFECTED. *sprays lysol*

[Ellsbeth]

Xiphus, your responses to this post have been the most amazing things I've read all week. LOVE YOU!

[Grayslin]

We're all going to die...









...again.

[Kaldore]

Well my wife works as a food safety inspector for a major wholesale club along the east coast and she's been out of town since sunday jetting from state to state trying to coordinate the "bird proofing" every single store under her jurisdiction due to warnings from WHO and CDC... On the surface it's funny to imagine you catch a flu and transform into a pig, but a lot of people are working pretty fucking hard to keep your food and public spaces safe.

[Swerto]

Bring it on.

Society can learn how to swim as it is crushed. The stupid will die and the smart will survive, it is the way of the world.

Of course this isn't that pandemic... but one will eventualy come. (Chances are I'll be an idiot and die, QQ QQ)

[Xiphus]

Well my wife works as a food safety inspector for a major wholesale club along the east coast and she's been out of town since sunday jetting from state to state trying to coordinate the "bird proofing" every single store under her jurisdiction due to warnings from WHO and CDC... On the surface it's funny to imagine you catch a flu and transform into a pig, but a lot of people are working pretty fucking hard to keep your food and public spaces safe.

Stuff like this is a very serious issue. We don't want a second SARS to occur again and thus things like containment is taken very seriously. If I'm not wrong, containment efforts are actually considered far more important than finding cures, as the most effective means to avoid dying from an illness is to not get infected to begin with. I don't know much about the CDC but I do know that they are mostly epidemiologists and their job is to find out where the disease comes from (animal reservoirs? Which country does it originate from?) what is the disease vector if there's any (e.g. mosquitos for malaria), what conditions allow the disease to thrive (lack of clean water source for cholera, for example) and how the disease is transmitted (food? Water? Aerosol?). I remember it's called 'Chain of Infection', and most of the time, they are most concerned with breaking the 'Chain of Infection' rather than just finding treatments.

[Broxigan]

One of the biggest problems with all of this right now is the media. Yes, we are enlightened to the situation and know what is going on, but we have people who think they are experts, people saying the end is nigh, that the world is going to vanish in the flash of vomit and poop. We have the burden of knowledge now, what with google maps pointing out every single possible outbreak, CNN raking in the ratings by scaring the fuck out of society and the internet and chain e-mails.

Bah.

It is a very serious issue that I am worried about.

Why?

Newborn on the way with a brand spanking new immune system.

Fffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuu

[Xiphus]

One of the biggest problems with all of this right now is the media. Yes, we are enlightened to the situation and know what is going on, but we have people who think they are experts, people saying the end is nigh, that the world is going to vanish in the flash of vomit and poop. We have the burden of knowledge now, what with google maps pointing out every single possible outbreak, CNN raking in the ratings by scaring the fuck out of society and the internet and chain e-mails.

Bah.

It is a very serious issue that I am worried about.

Why?

Newborn on the way with a brand spanking new immune system.

Fffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuu

Oh damn! Pneumonia after effects! Stash your babies in sterile bubbles! Flu season's a bad time to have kids, since the illness has a habit of killing those with weakened or immature immune system (child, sick and elderly).

The problem with the media is that they care too much about viewership and do things like "DOOM! DOOM!" to generate ratings (because general public like sensasional). And we have too much information and too many simpletons who have no idea what to make do with the information! Instead of letting the real experts to translate the information into something more digestible by laymen, some guy who wants too much attention decided to flip through their outdated 'Scientific Jargon - English' dictionaries to try and sound smart and end up dramatizing the damn thing way too much. Add in the unwashed masses who prefer to live in a land where 'we all die eventually and the world doesn't favor you! And that kitty eats canaries!' and you have the potential for massive scares as though pandemics were news (really, historical-wise, it's nothing new at all!).

Someone has to go slap them and point out that all the previous, far more lethal pandemics have yet to totally wipe out the human race! Look at the Black Death! It may wipe out entire villages and turn cities into eerie ghost cities, but by the time it passes due to lack of hosts, there are still enough humans and rats to repopulate!

[Malorii]

The reason why people are freaking out is not because of a simple influenza mutation, but the RNA strands and DNA strands are so radicly differant.


Let's say you own a zoo and you have zebras and elephants.

Ok so the Zebras can have baby zebras, there might be some veriants like, one zebra might be born with brown stripes, or not as many stripes as the other, but it's still a zebra.. Same with the elephants.


Ok so, lets say an elephant hopped the fence and had a wild sex orgy with the zebra and they had half zebra elephant babies, and you're like wHOAAA!! and the world is like 'WTF'!?

Got it?

This was the easiest way to explain it. So basically whats going on is your zebras had sex with elephants, except this was a virus, the weird thing is this has asian avain flu, mixed with pig and the human influenza.

Don't worry though, pack up on theramaflu, you can combat it and you'll feel like shit but it's not a super virus, if it where I'd be freaking the hell out. Take lots of Antivirals, follow normal stuff, wash your hands blahblahblah.

They activated my class so i've been volunteering at the health clinics. 20-40 are more susceptible to it from what i've heard, but there is so much conflict chatter.. . The doctors at the clinics are all saying one thing, the news is saying something completely differant. I hate the media, each report "more indepth then the last!'

If you get sick, or you start having fever, chills, vomiting or diarrhea go see your doctor because the more samples of this shit the better.

It's going to be ok.. it's not that bad its more fear then anything else. I mean the flu is shitty to begin with, but yeah, take your anti virals and stuff.

Edit: Forgot to put in, it *CAN and WILL* bring out underlying medical conditions, which can be super farking dangrous. so yeah, if you start having chills blahblahblah GO TO THE DAMN DOCTOR. If you can't afford to go see one I can find places in your area that will be little to no cost to you, all i need is your zip code city and state.

[Rand_Shea]

Let's put things into perspective a bit here...

Flus are nasty and all, but what kills are the fevers and dehydration. So long those are kept down and lots of CLEAN water is consumed, then you feel shitty for a few days but are generally good to go within a week.

Kids going to the hospital for having the flu? Not uncommon. Children's bodies are extremely prone to being damaged by any sort of illness and can die from viruses that an adult would most likely shrug off. With infants its even worse. That's why parents are justified in putting everything on hold and all but panicking when their kid is throwing up everything, including plain water, and is in constant pain. Sometimes an IV drip and supervision by nurses is the only way to keep peace of mind.

Also, why has this killed so many people in Mexico? Probably has to do with the state of THEIR country and in particular, THEIR healthcare. Clinics are often dirty and the doctors not very well skilled. The water is so contaminated with filth and microbes that you're warned whenever you travel there to not drink what runs from the tap and to get bottled instead. Unfortunately, many of the people there are so poor that they can't afford bottled water, so whenever sicknesses like these break out it often makes them more exposed and vulnerable to everything else around them. I would wager that the flu wasn't the only thing that some of those people in Mexico died from.

Also, with the state of poverty that so many are in and it being very easy to lose whatever work you may get there, people who are sick expose themselves to others and spread what they have simply because they'd rather suffer trying to make a living than stay home to recover, lose their job, and make their situations worse.

In comparison, as crappy as America's healthcare is at times, at least it's not like THAT. Employers are required to give sick days, and also understand that losing a bit of productivity from one person staying home for a little while is much less risky profit wise than that person coming into work, spreading their taint, and causing the entire facility to get infected. In short, Americans don't have to worry and weigh the risks of going to work versus taking care of themselves like many people in Mexico do.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

Bring it on.

Society can learn how to swim as it is crushed. The stupid will die and the smart will survive, it is the way of the world.

Of course this isn't that pandemic... but one will eventualy come. (Chances are I'll be an idiot and die, QQ QQ)

Wrong. Nerds, while they may have superior intellect, will have weakened immune systems due to high consumption of energy drinks and top ramen. They will die and the hippies will live, mark my words.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

One of the biggest problems with all of this right now is the media. Yes, we are enlightened to the situation and know what is going on, but we have people who think they are experts, people saying the end is nigh, that the world is going to vanish in the flash of vomit and poop. We have the burden of knowledge now, what with google maps pointing out every single possible outbreak, CNN raking in the ratings by scaring the fuck out of society and the internet and chain e-mails.

Bah.



That`s the whole plan. If we are scared enough we`ll be willing to take any inoculation they want to inject us with, which will likely contain the real plague. There`s a reason why the conspiracy theorist always outlives everyone in the story.

[Xiphus]

If I'm not wrong, what really kills you is not influenza, influenza merely destroys your respiratory mucosa layer and leave behind thick mucus filled to the brim with cell debris. It doesn't invade into your blood, it doesn't clog up your alveoli nor will it obstruct your trachea.

What kills you is the secondary infection that comes afterwards (and it's usually from your natural flora bacteria e.g. Streptococcus pneumoniae or Neisseria meningitidis). Nearly all people who died from flu really died from pneumonia!

But as usual, the best counter against flu is not getting it in the first place. Proper hygiene practice and avoiding contact with infected people will significantly decrease the chances of getting infected.

[Malorii]

Right now the only infection hot spots are from people who've come from travel destinations from Mexico, if it where random people getting stricken down with no contact what so ever with the vectors(sp?) then it would be a little bit more.. hmmm....

So far the worse cases are down in mexico, but.. it's not the cleanest country sanitation wise from what i've been hearing.

When the bird flu was found in China it was some.. bfe province city (Can't remember the exact name and i'm lazy) .. but it was pandemic when it magically appeared in Hong Kong, so they ordered all the chickens to be killed in that city, which if you think about it makes sence because it was saving us in the long run, less infection hosts, less breeding conditions, and longer mutations from said vectors.

I'm not saying we should nuke mexico, but we should have it as our Plan B option, even though this might already be to late/


Ladies and Gentlemen, start your chainsaws and start a plan to navigate north for awhile.

Bring warm clothes, and good sleeping bags, not the spongebob square pants kind.

Again this is last case scenario, but damn I would love to look into the blood shot eyes of my neighbor who plays his bass high way past midnight and smack him in the head with the crow bar and say "Do you believe me now?"


yeah..


On a high note, Bath and Body works is having a sale on mini hand sanitizers in fun fruity scents. Be Birdmanpig-flu free and smell great at the same time.

[Swerto]

Wrong. Nerds, while they may have superior intellect, will have weakened immune systems due to high consumption of energy drinks and top ramen. They will die and the hippies will live, mark my words.
What if I'm half way in between?

[Resinous]

I did a field training exercise one time during an ice storm at Ft. Benning while I had the flu. I slept next to a tree to try and get warmth and put a poncho over my face the first couple nights, I knew I had to stay hydrated to survive so I drank as much water as I could. I had horrible body aches and chills from the fever and a bad cough was developing. It was probably in the top 3 worst experiences of my life. After that experience I firmly believe no flu can kill me without the help of the Army making me sleep outside in ice storms.

[Szordrin]

OMG ELEPHANT FLU

[opalexian]

Uh, does an anti-bacterial agent protect against a virus? o_O Someone at dinner was talking about that and I was like...O_o

[Agnarr]

Uh, does an anti-bacterial agent protect against a virus? o_O Someone at dinner was talking about that and I was like...O_o

If it cleans, maybe. If you're wondering if anti-bacterial fights viruses I'd err on the side of "doubt it."

[opalexian]

I'm leaning that way too, but curious what more in-the-know people say. Damn, I shoulda asked at the doctor's but I had other things on my mind >_<

[Xiphus]

Uh, does an anti-bacterial agent protect against a virus? o_O Someone at dinner was talking about that and I was like...O_o

Anti-bacterials are antibiotics. Antibiotics do absolutely nothing against a virus. Scientists do not name their stuff with fancy names, so most names are self-explanatory. In this case, anti-bacterials are anti-bacteria not anti-viral. If that someone mentions stuff like whether anti-bacteria vs virus, tell them to look at the bloody name and think again!

[opalexian]

I figured so, but in the meantime-PIGZ ON CAMPUS! RED ALERT!


The Ohio State University Medical Center is releasing the following statement this evening (4/29). We want to make sure you received this before it is released to the local news.

The Ohio State University Medical Center provided treatment to a patient who was diagnosed with probable swine influenza A (H1N1) virus, which is pending confirmation at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The patient is an employee of the Medical Center who contracted the virus outside the workplace. The patient responded well to treatment and is being discharged this evening.

OSU Medical Center staff followed all recommended precautions to prevent the spread of the illness to others. Individuals who had contact with the patient prior to admission are being notified. The Medical Center is providing prophylactic/preventive medication to those individuals, in accordance with standard CDC recommendations.

The Medical Center’s normal patient visitation schedule remains unchanged. The hospital continues to urge all visitors and staff to follow infection control steps including covering your mouth and nose if you have a cough or sneeze, and not visit patients if you are ill. Frequent use of waterless hand sanitizers is also recommended.

OSU Medical Center is working in collaboration with the CDC, Ohio Department of Health, and Columbus Public Health and following all appropriate guidelines.

For more information on swine influenza, go to http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu.

We will provide updates in the following days through e-mail and the university emergency web site http://www.emergency.osu.edu.

I wonder how many people will show up to class. Oh, and lol @ hand sanitizers. (This is from the Provost and Vice President.)

[Aphraelle]

Uh, does an anti-bacterial agent protect against a virus? o_O Someone at dinner was talking about that and I was like...O_o

Not much (http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news-1/Antibacterial-Soap-Claims-Just-Dont-Wash-222-1/), apparently.

[Malorii]

/facepalm


at lest none of the people here have gotten birdmanpig-flu yet.


Now if only I could get swerto to stop sticking things he finds on the floor in his mouth.

:)

[Xiphus]

Not much (http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news-1/Antibacterial-Soap-Claims-Just-Dont-Wash-222-1/), apparently.

Not 'Not much'. It's 'totally doesn't'. It is very useful for washing off those pesky bacteria from your hands after touching soil, dirt and raw meat though since, well, it kills bacteria! Where can you find bacteria? Goddamn everywhere!

Also, in case of being infected with flu, washing your hands with one of these ensures that you minimize the chances of introducing something really nasty into your body that will take advantage of the damage dealt by flu to set up shop and kill you with pneumonia.

[Evanthe]

Did you know? Every year influenza kills hundreds of thousands of people worldwide.

Swine flu so far has killed a little over 200.

[Swerto]

Hasn't been a bad epidemic with influenza since the spanish flu, everything else that has been named 'flu' pales by comparison.

[Lascivious]

much ado about nothing.

[Rand_Shea]

Anti-bacterials do nothing against viruses... They're primarily dehydrating agents that suck the water out of bacterial cells or they break down certain components in the cells to kill them. Viruses aren't cells, they're protein based carriers of DNA that attach themselves to cells, so they are pretty much impervious to anti-bacterial stuff.

It's why there's no cure for influenza, the common cold, or any other virus except through preventative vaccines. They're something that have to be treated in a way that keeps the body healthy until anti-bodies can form, disable the virus, and white blood cells can consume them before dying and being excreted. What the virus is designed to attack is what makes it deadly... and influenza itself is only deadly to small children, infants, and the elderly. Its the symptoms and followup infections that kill people in between.

[opalexian]

Via the CDC, (http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/) according to the WHO this is now considered in the beginning stages of a worldwide pandemic.

No, I don't think things will get bad...unless the outbreak spreads like wildfire and they don't have enough meds to treat it all.

ROFL, one guy in class said that yesterday some guy threw up in a trash can in the hall...got it everywhere too. o_O

[Rand_Shea]

Pandemics usually go hand in hand with unclean conditions and water... or just poor hygiene. You're more likely to get sick by not properly taking care of yourself.

So, the upside of cases appearing in the US... there will be a whole lot less asstastic BO from people who refuse to clean themselves properly.

...though, don't quote me on that. Sometimes there's nothing that can compel some people to use soap and water.

[Cabriel]

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/sandnsurf/3LNsyfIs3qNCh6KuxLMWmotajbsD0DtDhLSL5CrGTYvidglSiz rPe2ksD7Vj/pig_flu.jpg

[Gorvena]

Oh dear lord...LAWL

[Cabriel]

I also just made this.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2723/29/17/503920560/n503920560_2981097_2268158.jpg

[Lysimachus]

WoW is just so trendy. (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50303)

...or more likely, the world trends with WoW.

[Gorvena]

That's been in the game since the expansion last October. Still, interesting coincidence.

[Thalevia]

Quote from another message board by someone actually living in mexico currently and not receiving info via the international media.


Mexican authorities say that there have been only 20 confirmed deaths, and they're investigating 61. Problem is, we're in the middle of flu season in México *anyway* and the way international news are handling the situation, any flu is being reported as swine flu (influenza). Yes, SOME people are wearing masks on the street, but it's not mandated, and the army is not handing them on the streets, only in the very Zocalo and Reforma and it was only this weekend because the closing of public events happened on a Friday and some people wasn't informed of the situation. We're not quarantined, we were only told to avoid masses of people. I live in the city, the so-called point of start of this so-called epidemic (Another thing, even if the 20 deaths had happened in the city, which they didn't, we're 22 million people in the city. 20 confirmed deaths is not an epidemic) and the fear atmosphere presented in the international news is not present. In fact, schools weren't closed until the 6th! We're still waiting on confirmation for that. They were closed on Friday, but the school closing for a week was in other states, not in the city. Yes, we're taking precautions -new vaccines will be given to the public next week, and there has been a big shipment of vitamin C and anti-flu medication- but it's not the 'Stand' like emergency some international news are trying to sell.

This was as of the 26th

[Malorii]

bio engineered germs from wow nerds. ... I has nothing to do with this.

[Advurb]

update... schools in my district are closing due to one reported case. yay school in summer!

[Xiphus]

Quote from another message board by someone actually living in mexico currently and not receiving info via the international media.



This was as of the 26th

Don't you just hate the media?

[opalexian]

WoW is just so trendy. (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50303)

...or more likely, the world trends with WoW.

/cough
/run SendChatMessage("has infected you with\124cff71d5ff\124Hspell:50303\124h[Swine Flu]\124h\124r.","EMOTE",nil)
/sorry

There you go, the proper macro so it shows the Swine Flu tool tip in the /e



...BRILLIANT!

[Vales]

Spread the fear, the paranoia, the love - this email came today to the entirety of campus at MIT from a higher-up in the President's Office. Big push on two recent issues, one is the norovirus that hit a worker on campus and his family and the second is H1N1, since a case was (unconfirmed to my knowledge at this point) found in a Harvard student down the road. As an aside, the Harvard School of Dentistry is closed because of the scare.


To Members of the MIT Community:

By now, you have heard much about the H1N1 influenza (“swine flu”) cases reported in Mexico and other countries, and in several U.S. states, including Massachusetts. I am writing to let you know that MIT is prepared to respond in the event that this virus impacts our campus. Please allow me to tell you about activities under way and to review best practices for preventing the spread of illness.

MIT’s preparations to handle a potential outbreak
Since the emergence of H1N1 flu as a potential public health threat, we have been in regular contact with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Massachusetts Department of Public Health (DPH). In addition, we are closely following the decisions of the World Health Organization (WHO). To track the progression of infectious diseases on a global scale, the WHO uses a 6-level threat-alert system. Yesterday, the WHO raised the H1N1 flu alert level to 5, meaning the illness now has sustained human-to-human transmission, although it does not meet the definition of a global pandemic.

H1N1 flu appears to respond well to two antiviral drugs: oseltamivir (Tamiflu) and zanamivir (Relenza). MIT Medical has supplies of both, to treat patients who actually become sick from H1N1 flu. In addition, the federal government has released a portion of the Massachusetts allocation of antivirals, which we expect will be available to MIT if additional doses are needed. MIT Medical has also obtained a stock of rapid-flu-testing kits for use with patients exhibiting flu-like symptoms. If the rapid test is positive for influenza A, we can have the Massachusetts DPH perform further testing for the specific influenza A subtype that is associated with the current flu outbreak.

Symptoms to watch for
H1N1 flu symptoms are similar to the symptoms of seasonal influenza: fever, cough, sore throat, body aches, headache, chills and fatigue. In a few cases, diarrhea, nausea and vomiting have also been reported. Like seasonal influenza, H1N1 flu can have symptoms that range from very mild to quite severe. Fortunately, most H1N1 flu cases in the U.S. thus far have been relatively mild.

How to avoid infection and spreading the flu
To protect yourself and others from potential infection, we encourage you to follow the same strategies normally recommended to guard against seasonal influenza and other contagious illnesses: Wash your hands frequently and thoroughly with soap and warm water, or use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer; cover coughs and sneezes with your upper sleeve or a tissue; avoid touching your eyes, nose and mouth; and avoid close contact with people who are sick. Individuals with respiratory symptoms should don masks when in close contact with others.

If you have flu-like symptoms—fever, cough, sore throat, body aches, headache, chills and fatigue—contact your primary care provider. If you don’t have a primary care provider, call MIT Medical’s main number at (Vales Note: If you want these numbers, they're public on the MIT website, I'm not making it that easy for bots to grab them), TTY. Benefits-eligible MIT employees who are not members of the MIT Health Plan may be seen at MIT Medical’s Urgent Care Service or by an MIT Medical primary care provider for an initial evaluation of acute illness, at no charge.

To protect the health of our community, it is extremely important that you stay home if you have symptoms of the flu or any other contagious illness.

MIT is a place where persevering through hardship to get the job done is common practice. However, in the public-health situation we are facing, the most valuable thing you can do for the extended family of MIT is to stay home if you are sick. Staff members who are experiencing flu-like symptoms should not come to work, and students who have symptoms should not attend classes, social gatherings or other campus events.

Managers, professors and department heads are expected to support your decision to stay home in order to protect others, and they are being asked to plan for this.

How MIT is monitoring the situation
MIT has an Emergency Operations Center (EOC), which pulls together resources from various Institute groups to plan for how the Institute will manage public-health and other large-scale emergencies. EOC members have worked on issues like SARS, convened during the recent norovirus outbreak at Babson College, and examined the steps to be taken in the event MIT experiences a major flu outbreak. The EOC is actively monitoring the current situation.

At this time, Institute events, classes and exams will continue as scheduled. The Institute is closely monitoring H1N1 flu developments and will make adjustments as needed. In the meantime, please visit the MIT Medical website at http://medweb.mit.edu/ and the MIT Emergency homepage at http://emergency.mit.net for updates and resources, including a set of FAQs. Please also ensure that your emergency contact information is up to date by visiting the “MIT Alert” link on the Emergency homepage.

Up-to-date national and local information is available from the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/) and the state’s public health blog (http://publichealth.blog.state.ma.us/).

As you go about your life at MIT in the coming days and weeks, please take care of yourself: Eat properly, get rest, manage your stress levels and practice proper hygiene.

If you have specific questions or concerns about H1N1 flu not addressed by the websites listed above, please contact MIT Medical by calling its main number, (Vales Note: also public but for bot sake), or by emailing comments-fluinfo [at] mit [dot] edu.

Sincerely,
(someone important at my work)

[Thalevia]

Don't you just hate the media?

No I don't hate the media. I do hate their habit of sensationalizing everything in an effort to get ratings.

Is swine/mexican/strain of H1N1 that typically comes from pigs bad? Probably. Should we be freaking out and calling 20 confirmed deaths a pandemic? Nope. And I was reading in one place that where they listed over 100 dead, they died from other strains of the flu and pneunomia and not the H1N1 version.

[Leeleei]

Clearly it's a jewish conspiracy in order to push us gentiles into their kosher diet.

Or another Christian conspiracy to scapegoat the Jews. :)


But back to the topic, I had no idea what a panic this flu was causing until I was evacuated from my office yesterday for germ cleaning allegedly due to the Govern[at]ors warning on it. A little extreme, I believe. Or maybe because they needed an excuse for a day off.

[Xiphus]

It's just another false panic being enforced by idiot governors because of sensationalization in the news. Those germ cleaning thing isn't going to work if they are going to spray antibacs. They have to steam the office to get rid of the virus.

[Szordrin]

SWINE INFLUENZA A (H1N1) INFORMATION
for
Columbia College Chicago Community
April 29, 2009


As you have undoubtedly heard, human cases of swine influenza A (H1N1) (swine flu) virus infection have been identified in the United States, Canada, and Mexico, the likely epicenter of the outbreak. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is working very closely with officials in the states where human cases of swine influenza have been identified, as well as with health officials, in Mexico, Canada and the World Health Organization.

Last evening the first probable case of swine flu was reported in Chicago’s Rogers Park neighborhood. Of course there is reason for concern, but there is no need for alarm. However, the situation could rapidly escalate and I believe it is prudent that the college community be properly informed.

This strain of swine flu is an acute and highly contagious respiratory disease. Symptoms of swine flu are like regular flu symptoms and include:

• Fever
• Cough
• Sore throat
• Body aches
• Headache
• Chills
• Fatigue

If you are experiencing any of these symptoms and believe you may have swine flu, it is imperative that you stay home, contact your health care provider, and inform your supervisor.

Students should contact Student Health Center at 312.369.6830. Work-aid and work study students should also contact their supervisors.

Because of the extraordinary circumstances associated with the swine flu, the CareATC on-site medical clinic will be available to all faculty and staff who have questions regarding swine flu symptoms. Faculty and staff may email the CareATC clinic at columbiacollege@careatc.com with your questions and phone number and they will receive a return phone call.

With the current level of concern, the college has elected to follow basic infection control procedures.

Basic infection control:

• Wash your hands frequently

• Cover your cough (see attached PDF flyer)

• Isolate yourself if you develop an upper respiratory infection (i.e. do not come to work)


After consulting with President Carter, the college is taking the following actions at this time:

• Distribute infection control announcements and updates via the college’s student portal, The Loop, List Serve Announcements and the college’s website.

• Provide hand sanitizers and tissues for work and common areas.

• Provide wipes for shared keyboards, phones, and other such surfaces.


These items will be available at the security stations in each building starting Thursday, April 30th.

A supply of each product will be distributed to all campus computer labs.

Students, faculty, and staff may pick up supplies at security stations in their buildings.

Should the situation change the college will make additional announcements and/or updates via the student portal, The Loop, List Serve Announcements and the college’s website.

Additional FAQs:

How do people become infected?

Most transmission is by cough and droplet. Usually such transmission is limited to 3 feet and this transmission is reduced by covering your cough. Transmission is also reduced by frequent hand washing.

How can I protect myself from getting swine influenza from infected people?

To protect yourself, practice general preventive measures for influenza:

• Avoid close contact with people who appear ill and who have fever and cough.

• Wash your hands with soap and water frequently and thoroughly.

• Practice good health habits including adequate sleep, eating nutritious food, and keeping physically active.

What should I do if I think I have swine influenza?

If you feel ill, have high fever, cough and/or sore throat:

• Stay home and keep away from work, school or crowds as much as possible.

• Contact your healthcare provider.

• Rest and take plenty of fluids.

• Cover your mouth and nose with disposable tissues when coughing and sneezing and dispose of the used tissues properly.

• Wash your hands with soap and water frequently and thoroughly, especially after coughing or sneezing. Hand sanitizer may be used when you are unable to wash with soap and water.

• Inform family and friends about your illness and seek help for household chores that require contact with other people such as shopping.

If you need medical attention:

• Contact your doctor or healthcare provider or the Student Health Center 312.369.6830 before traveling to see them and report your symptoms. Explain why you think you have swine flu. Follow the advice given to you for care.

• If it is not possible to contact your healthcare provider in advance, communicate your suspicion of having swine influenza immediately upon arrival at the healthcare facility.

• If you are ill, take care to cover your nose and mouth during travel outside of your home.

Blair Odland, MD
Student Health Center

Fatigue?!??! As a student???? Unheard of.

[Anaie]

There was an outbreak of Swine Flu in the 70s at Fort Dix. It didn't go anywhere. It is spreading to many, but it's the flu... It won't wipe out humanity. The normal flu kills 500,00 a year or something. No conspiracy, no pandemic. It isn't 1918 Spanish Flu (that one got my Great Grandmother). If there were a conspiracy to wipe out the world with disease, it would be something far nastier I'm sure. 12 Monkeys nasty! Save me Bruce Willis & Brad Pitt!

This is just natures way of culling the population some, just like famine and every other plague or event. (ok I'll toss war in there too... too many people in one place leads to resource competition and just anger from rubbing elbows. Kill the enemy!)

One could even say that we are making the world quite the nasty place as stronger and stronger illnesses have to come about to bring down the population since we grow too resistant after a while (boo vaccinations, ok not really, I am glad I can't get polio and all that). But I am sure a much better humanity thinner will form about eventually. Nature is an awesome thing.

[Agnarr]

More people did from the vaccination for the 70's swine flu than from the strain itself.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

More people did from the vaccination for the 70's swine flu than from the strain itself.
Finally, a ray of truth springs forth from the murk.

[Szordrin]

oh lawdy.

[Cabriel]

http://www.geekologie.com/2009/05/04/zombie%20swine%20flu.jpg

[Fjordan]

http://www.thinkgeek.com/books/humor/7838/

We all must be prepared.

[Malethor]

For some reason I'm not at all afraid of this flu.

I tend to feel pretty immune to things people panic over though, I guess. Like the economic downturn or w/e.

[Anaie]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/umedia/20090506/cp.c92dfd08f254fc19a31cad2876cfdb7b.gif

[Tiraline]

http://www.geekologie.com/2009/05/04/zombie%20swine%20flu.jpg

Missed changing "Mexico" in the photo caption, by the by. :) You fix, I delete this.

[Cabriel]

Missed changing "Mexico" in the photo caption, by the by. :) You fix, I delete this.

Hee hee! :) I actually didn't make this pic. Found it on geekologie. :)

[Raziel]

It ain't Ebola where people are vomiting and shitting out their liquified insides.

If it ain't Ebola, it ain't worth takin' seriously.

[Resinous]

the strong survive to breed and the weak die like they should.... well it used to be that way.

Babies are weak, why should they die. I'm willing to bet you're not very strong either since you talk about a headache and being on hold for 20 minutes like it was a hard day worth remembering.

[Xiphus]

It ain't Ebola where people are vomiting and shitting out their liquified insides.

If it ain't Ebola, it ain't worth takin' seriously.

Flu can be pretty nasty, but it doesn't exactly kill anyone in the span of two weeks. In case of swine flu, apparently, it doesn't just attack your mucosa layer, it also attacks the central nervous system, the liver and other organs, a systemic infection. The same way it used to be with the Spanish Flu. With this flu, you are going to die from encephalitis (brain swelling), multiple organ failure and pneumonia (always pneumonia. Can't it give us a break after a flu infection?).

And you are pretty wrong about the Ebola. The first symptoms of Ebola are flu-like, and it doesn't liquify your insides, it just make you bleed profusely, internally and externally. You WILL DIE (66% mortality rate) unless you receive fluid replacement therapy, since dehydration and shock is what kills you in an Ebola replacement. Also, as Ebola kills so fast, it doesn't really spread efficiently, ESPECIALLY once the people have good sense to stop touching things that comes from an Ebola patient.

Good luck getting rid of the blood. The blood is highly infectious.

[Raziel]

I was just paraphrasing to be dramatic Xiphus

[Szordrin]

You know, I played Pandemic II and got every country cept Madagascar with the Swine Flu. Fuckin Madagascar.

[Xiphus]

I was just paraphrasing to be dramatic Xiphus

But I am no good in dramatics!

BTW, do you know that there are Ebola strains from Philipines too? And then there seems to be a minor outbreak of Ebola once in Malaysia in who knows how long ago. It was assumed that the disease comes from bats, which spreads it to the monkeys (DAMN MONKEYS!), and then it goes to the humans who are stupid enough to play with monkeys or touch a monkey's corpse.

And then it's Bleed-o-rama. Applaud as the idiot monkey molestor projectile vomits blood.

And Dr. Remus, you really mess up the point of natural selection. If the baby dies, either he is born in a flu season, or his mother sucks as a mother (seriously, if the mother can't take good care of the kid and make sure he stays healthy and prepared for adulthood, she ought to just stop being a mammal and go produce a few dozen offspring like reptiles). Mothers are there to make sure their offspring survives into adulthood, after which the survival of that person depends on his level of idiocy, behaviour and genetic predesposition to diseases. If he is born with cystic fibrosis.....do us a favor and don't make kids until you die at age 30. We don't need more cystic fibrosis kids. Kindly remove that defective delta P508 gene from the gene pool.

Also, instincts does not dictate if a person dies from a disease. Rather, instincts heavily dictates behaviour, at least until the conscience takes over. Instincts is what dictates if the mother will have some sort of 'closeness' to their children, and if the man is a bloody pervert.

[EnheilRas]

Well, the one you were describing was the Sudani strain of Ebola. The Zaire Strain of Ebola is a lot deadlier (90% casualty rate under 14days). Then there's the Reston Strain which humans are actually immune to, but is an airborne virus.

All of the filovirii are fucking dangerous, even Marburg.

[Xiphus]

Well, the one you were describing was the Sudani strain of Ebola. The Zaire Strain of Ebola is a lot deadlier (90% casualty rate under 14days). Then there's the Reston Strain which humans are actually immune to, but is an airborne virus.

All of the filovirii are fucking dangerous, even Marburg.

Not to mention they teach mankind the joys of bleeding from every orifice.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

But I am no good in dramatics!

BTW, do you know that there are Ebola strains from Philipines too? And then there seems to be a minor outbreak of Ebola once in Malaysia in who knows how long ago. It was assumed that the disease comes from bats, which spreads it to the monkeys (DAMN MONKEYS!), and then it goes to the humans who are stupid enough to play with monkeys or touch a monkey's corpse.

And then it's Bleed-o-rama. Applaud as the idiot monkey molestor projectile vomits blood.

And Dr. Remus, you really mess up the point of natural selection. If the baby dies, either he is born in a flu season, or his mother sucks as a mother (seriously, if the mother can't take good care of the kid and make sure he stays healthy and prepared for adulthood, she ought to just stop being a mammal and go produce a few dozen offspring like reptiles). Mothers are there to make sure their offspring survives into adulthood, after which the survival of that person depends on his level of idiocy, behaviour and genetic predesposition to diseases. If he is born with cystic fibrosis.....do us a favor and don't make kids until you die at age 30. We don't need more cystic fibrosis kids. Kindly remove that defective delta P508 gene from the gene pool.

Also, instincts does not dictate if a person dies from a disease. Rather, instincts heavily dictates behaviour, at least until the conscience takes over. Instincts is what dictates if the mother will have some sort of 'closeness' to their children, and if the man is a bloody pervert.

^ WOW.

[Villayna]

So I talked to my "son of a CDC bigwig" friend yesterday. It was an interesting talk. Apparently it's actually A-H1N1, as in, Avian-swine, they are just leaving off the A part in most of the news blurbs to be "shorter".

They aren't worried so much about *this* strain of the virus...they are freaking out about what is going to happen when this runs into the asian avian flu and a couple of other viruses out there that are devastating to the human body. Humans have zero immunity to H1N1 because it's new. Mutate something that humans have no immunity to into something that is deadly, and that's why a lot of people are stocking up the bunkers under their houses.

Plus it's not flu season. They just have no idea what it's going to look like when flu season comes back.

[Xiphus]

OH BOY! I get to PLAY!



My using of dumb luck as a qualifier for survival is my way of putting billions of uncontrollable things (like how shitty one's parents are) into one big ol' group. The problem with that is, while it saves times, it's a bitch to define the term. Natural selection to me is this:

Tangible (instincts, strength of body, strength of mind, etc.)
Intangible (luck, parental skills, doctor skills, etc.)

Instincts are what dictates whether you'll survive in combat/prison/etc. High stress situations, you know? Conscience is null when you're trying to survive. Therefore, survival is based partially on shit you can change and shit you can't. You can't change the potency of the flu but you could have, when you were young, been exposed to virus after virus and built up your immune system so NO MERE FLU WOULD KILL YOUUUU!!! :)

And I agree with the rest of that, too. Especially eugenics. I just happen to believe in my own form of natural selection. It's "heartless" but it needs to be.

edit: there is no such thing as flu season unless you're counting that kooky year round variety.

Flu season does exist. That's the winter season, when people hurdle in some enclosed space to keep out the cold. When you put too many people into one small square space, they are bound to sneeze at each other and then all of them gets influenza. If they are old and infirm, they will then get pneumonia as a free gift.

Flu season also coincides with meningitis outbreaks since causative agents of meningitis spread by aerosol as well. Always know that when you and another four or five of your buddies hurdle around a heater, there's a very high chance all of you are going to get either influenza and/or meningitis, depending on who among you is feeling a bit under the weather that day. For a person with a poor immune system (or are in the very face of a new outbreak that kills rapidly and your immune system does not recognize), well, he best do his mates a favor and go throw himself into a mass grave.

And I stated instincts as natural behaviour, until conscience sets in, is mainly because humans have a tendency to suppress their instincts with their conscience. If humans are to naturally let their instincts get away with it, you can see every human behaving like chimpanzees. They don't because they keep letting their higher thought functions get in the way of behaving like monkeys. As far as I am concerned, the only instincts that have so far been left pretty intact are survival instincts and reproductive instincts (and for some, maternal/paternal instincts as well). And these are pretty suspect because I did see plenty of people acting like a bunch of lemmings. Instincts dictate behaviour.

And never discount higher thought functions. If you follow instincts alone, you are going to die. Horribly. Learn to use that head a bit and figure out the best way to survive instead of lashing out at everything that looks at you funny. A person with instincts might prolong his life for a moment. But a person with both instincts and plenty of preparation and planning survives indefinitely provided he doesn't botch up in decision-making. A wolf who only knows how to use instinct and is incapable of making the most rudimentary hunting plan with the rest of his pack is going to starve. A moose who follows its own instincts is going to die in a car crash (because they will instinctively attempt to size up against a speeding car coming their way).

Also, instincts do dictate parenting behaviour. Naturally, every species is interested in reproduction and passing down their genes. This does, after all, benefits the species and dictates how long the species is going to exist. If the parent is unable to work on prolonging the survival of its offspring, it has sucky instincts and its species should go into the pit.

Always know that natural/artificial selection pits you against your environment. If you can't deal with whatever's thrown your way, you are going to die. If you are a dumbass, you are never going to be a scientist (and every Tom, Dick and Harry is going to take advantage of you and leech whatever little usefulness you have dry and leave you a husk). If you are born without legs, everybody is going to outrun you and leave you behind as vulture-fodder. To survive in the selection game, you must be able to adapt to changing environments and situations. If a building collapses upon you and you have sense enough to make a run for it, you may survive. If you managed to get away, you have just won one part of the selection game. If you are stuck in the classroom and you managed to prove yourself smarter and more resourceful than the whole lot of them and find yourself in a much better career, you just won in the selection game. If you are in a warzone and you have good sense to duck and roll behind every cover and improvise whatever you can get your hands on to prolong your lifespan, you are a candidate to being the winner of the selection game. Your parents are there to groom you until you are ready to play in the selection game. Whatever happens after you leave the nest to play the game is really up to whatever useful abilities you have acquired under the protection of your parents.

I also noted that you seem to think that the immune system in a healthy person is invincible. It isn't. It is a robust system but it has flaws. For one, phagocytes can't be everywhere at once, there are some parts of your body that is unreachable by your immune system (like your brain, which is completely isolated from blood. That's why meningitis is such a serious problem), and it usually takes around a couple of days before you could start producing antibodies for a new disease. Your immune system also has some weaknesses against viral infections as antibodies can't do shit against cells that are already infected, and your cytotoxic T cells, whose job is to root out infected cells, can't be everywhere at once.

[Evanthe]

You know, I played Pandemic II and got every country cept Madagascar with the Swine Flu. Fuckin Madagascar.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll100/CaptainFailcon/SHUTDOWNEVERYTHING.jpg

[Szordrin]

Eva. I love you. Have my children.

<.<

[Raziel]

So I talked to my "son of a CDC bigwig" friend yesterday. It was an interesting talk. Apparently it's actually A-H1N1, as in, Avian-swine, they are just leaving off the A part in most of the news blurbs to be "shorter".

So what you're saying is...

...pigs can fly?

[Tiraline]

The weak die and the strong survive. Due to dumb luck, strength of character/body, or what have you, the strong survive to breed and the weak die like they should.... well it used to be that way.

All I have to say is: As the "weak"--a.k.a. legally blind--I bid you go to Hell.

That is all.

[Tiraline]

I didn't say I was going to kill you. I said I bid you go to Hell when you do, eventually, die.

Of course, being one of your much-vaunted "superior" people, you probably don't have a lot in the way of reading comprehension. Those conceits are for those of us who enjoy the benefits of human civilization--you know, those of us who have nothing to offer and shouldn't be allowed to breed.

I mean, if one can't go out and club a moose to death, then rip off a few choice pieces with his teeth while holding off a pack of wolves, one has to have SOMETHING to get him by, right?

...This is why people who talk about the disabled as if we don't have anything to offer don't impress me.

(This post is brought to you in part by the Society for the Handling and Undermining of Truly Unrewarding Propositions, an organization dedicated to reminding people that they really aren't bright enough to rule the world.)

[Tiraline]

I am disabled and I know disabled that offer much to the world... and they had to WORK for it.

If you think that a person should be required continuously to beg for his life to some group of self-righteous dictators by providing a demonstration of his "worthiness" to continue to exist, then you had best keep your resume up-to-date and hope they don't move the bar.

Eugenics is not a sign that a society is moving upward. It's a sign that the "worthy" members have become too selfish and self-impressed to worry themselves about the "unworthy." That's human nature.

...Anyway, why is this discussion going on here? Doesn't this belong in the Political forum?

[Szordrin]

Why are you two bickering again?

[Villayna]

yes, please stop the eugenics talk unless you want to take it to the political forum.

[Xiphus]

A person should not be given anything once they leave their family. They should work and earn it all and then, when they have achieved something... or fell by the wayside, they will know that they will have deserved whatever they've gotten. Natural selection. You either pony up and earn your place in the world or you don't and earn your place underfoot.

edit: there's a political forum?

Childhood is the time to learn the ins and outs of living out in the world. That is why adults should have no excuse to being trashes of society. Either his childhood is a mess or he hasn't bothered to learn as a child. Blame his education or background, but once he is outside, he should never expect someone to hold his hand as he tries to live. A person who can't stand on his own feet (or find the means to stand without feet) deserves no sympathy. A person who truly tries to achieve in his life despite his disablities, shortcomings and disadvantages, however, is the one we should try to help.

The charity of giving money is the greatest cruelty of all. It makes them dependent. The charity of giving skills (and a job which caters to that skill) is the greatest kindness. The person gets to earn some income, and if the person has ambition and some intelligence and shrewdness to plan and, heck, he might just climb the career ladder. If you want to help a person, do it so that he will no longer need help. Give him the tools to succeed in life.

Give a man fish and he gets to eat for a day. Teach the man to fish and he gets to eat forever.

And of course, teach the man to trade fish and he gets to eat meat.

I also agree about exposing the child to the environment to build immune system. One of the reasons why new diseases are showing up is because we are increasingly living in a sanitized environment. Yes, we do have immunization, but vaccines do not cover all diseases. We should go out and get dirty with all the common ills and we will eventually build resistance to those illnesses that do not undergo mutations frequently or has ways to evade our immune system. Then we can devote our resources to dealing the problem microbes. Like Mycobacteria tuberculosis.

But aren't we going out of topic?

Anyway, so the H1N1 can spread via birds, eh? I think it's about time we stay away from pork and avian products and question if we practiced proper hygiene. And have a stack of surgical masks in case someone started sneezing, get high fever and being unable to leave his bed for more than a week.

[Villayna]

access to political forum info: http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=13360

[Skallagar]

Damn SIM City and other RTS games for making people form theories on what type of people should get to live or die.

I was at a party the other day where this group of girls couldn't name one, count em, ONE member of the Rolling Stones. Much as I'd like it, you don't see me declaring they don't deserve life.

[Ashenmar]

Six pages and we're already starting to plan who creates the new civilization. Impressive and disheartening at the same time.

P.S. - Please don't wear the surgeon's mask outside. I understand people like their droplet precautions but ya know, surgeon's masks aren't really made for everyday living.

[Okhu]

Besides that they make you FUCKING CRAZY looking.

Lol Pandemic, I scoff at you. SCOFF!

[Xiphus]

Don't forget to add a hood with the mask. And maniacal grin under that mask with accompanying maniacal gaze and a cleaver in one hand.

[Resinous]

What about babies? That's what's dumb luck is for.

All I'm saying is everyone has trials put before them. The strong will win and the weak will lose. If you lose enough times, you'll die or be in prison forever... or worse. The flu kills. That's all there is to it. When people die of the flu, it is their time to go. If they were strong enough to beat it, they would have. Human instinct is crazy like that, dig?

And besides, headaches make people cranky. It's just the nature of that particular beast

I just didn't like the strong live but the weak die statement is all, no hard feelings. I've known family members that died from cancer that were far from weak. In fact they put up so much of a fight that I consider them some of the strongest people I've ever had the honor of meeting. Anyway I'm sorry for calling you weak, that was wrong of me. There are many forms of strength and to just consider someone who fought like hell to live weak because they died is a huge insult to millions of people in our history.

[Xiphus]

I just didn't like the strong live but the weak die statement is all, no hard feelings. I've known family members that died from cancer that were far from weak. In fact they put up so much of a fight that I consider them some of the strongest people I've ever had the honor of meeting. Anyway I'm sorry for calling you weak, that was wrong of me. There are many forms of strength and to just consider someone who fought like hell to live weak because they died is a huge insult to millions of people in our history.

Let me tell you something good about cancer. Cancer is what happens once your cells botch up in its DNA checking mechanism during cell division, and this is frequently caused by damage to the genes which screwed the mechanism. What causes this damage? Free radicals, radiation, all sorts of things in our environment. You accumulate this as you grow older. To grow old enough to actually accumulate enough of this damage to get cancer usually means you must have survived very long. Our body isn't supposed to last beyond 4 decades anyway. Getting cancer (and dying from it) does not mean you are weak, it means you lived for too long.

[Villayna]

seriously, if you guys don't stop the "the weak should/shouldn't die" debates, I will close the thread.

[Gorvena]

This is a dead issue and you should close it anyway. *nods*

[Fjordan]

This is a dead issue and you should close it anyway. *nods*

/agree

It's a thread about Swine Flu. Not about who is gonna survive it or not...or any other disease / virus.

[Agnarr]

I agree with the above. If you get cancer it means you're supposed to die. Pussy.


Now, where did I put that sarcasm tag...

[Xiphus]

Let's see, in the past where life expentancy never goes beyond 50 years, how often did you hear of people dying from cancer or other non-communicable diseases? Rarely.

Present, where life expenctancy can go beyond 80 years, how often do you hear people dying from non-communicable diseases? Way too often.

Naturally, our body is supposed to last long enough until we reproduce and raised our kids to adulthood. And that ought to have happened after puberty. Once we have done this purpose, there wasn't any biological sense to keep us alive. We have already made kids and raised them to continue on our species, our job was already done.

But we went beyond our natural life expectancy anyway. We ain't got predators hunting us, we stopped pointing guns at each other (well, not so much anyway) and we had antibiotics and other drugs to deal with communicable diseases. With none of these trying to take us down, all that is left to kill us is our own bodies, which actually starts degrading the moment we reached adulthood, what with T cell production going down (thymus atrophy), accumulation of DNA-damaging agents and the slowing down of cell division. We are way past our prime and our body starts dying.

When this happens, we start getting heart attacks and cancer. You have lived for too long and now you have the misfortune of feeling your body dying. Life is cruel that way.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

According to my demography studies, the dead at 40 thing is a myth and is strongly correlated with infant and childhood death and sanitation. Also, in isolated cultures where there are no means for "technology" to keep humans alive you'd be surprised to find that not only did their life expectancies match ours but often times surpass (ie, the native hunzas, gaelic hebrides, and eskimo). Interestingly enough many of these cultures were also devoid of things like cancer and heart disease which are often simply diseases of civilization.

[Xiphus]

According to my demography studies, the dead at 40 thing is a myth and is strongly correlated with infant and childhood death and sanitation. Also, in isolated cultures where there are no means for "technology" to keep humans alive you'd be surprised to find that not only did their life expectancies match ours but often times surpass (ie, the native hunzas, gaelic hebrides, and eskimo). Interestingly enough many of these cultures were also devoid of things like cancer and heart disease which are often simply diseases of civilization.

I did not mention you die at 40 by yourself, you die at 40 back then because you are going to get sick, killed by other people or be eaten by hungry animals. So it makes biological sense for you to make babies before you become a food or a corpse, and you become a corpse before you even reach 40. Chances of that happening is way too high in the past.

Also, these natives you mentioned are fortunate enough to live in areas which have few, massive predators you can see miles away (and gives you the time to run away unless you are as silly as that tauren eating a burger right at the path of a devilsaur) and the environment is hostile to diseases. Also clean air. However, for the majority of us who are less fortunate, if we managed to survive being eaten, shot, stabbed and falling sick, we die from cancer instead, mostly thanks to the sun and the high energy diet (more free radicals to kill your cells with). So we die so much sooner. The world was actually actively hostile beyond the north or south pole (where most of the danger comes from blizzards, and most of the energy sources comes from fats, which are metabolized slower than carbohydrates, giving your body the time to deal with accumulating free radicals at its own leisure).

And finally, if your body is supposed to last until past your prime, it wouldn't be giving you wrinkles and you wouldn't be getting arthritis now, would you? Nope, the priority of life is to pass genes around to continue your line, at least, before the environment gets too hostile that you are hard pressed to find someone to make children with. Once that is done, your body has alot less reasons to handle maintenance. After all, why even bother maintaining your body if you are going to get eaten? But we don't have to worry about being eaten now, do we? So most of us are going to feel the brunt of radiations and free radicals and we start walking home with cancer. Especially for those of us who are going to be hit by the blazing sun and are eating high carb foods daily.

Cancer is not a disease of civilization. Far from it, it's a disease of growing old in places with high levels of DNA-damaging agents where main source of energy comes from carbs. Unless you are living high up north, eat blubber and have no sun for half a year, you are going to get cancer at least once in your lifetime. In fact, you already have perfect candidates of cancer cells on you right now. These are your moles.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

I don't have a single mole on my body, but I certainly have cancer cells inside of it, we all do. Cancer is not an old person's disease, otherwise you wouldn't have children and adolescents dying in droves from it. Most of the people I've known to succumb were far from old.

Also, if carbs caused cancer then I would fully expect the Cretians to have a high rate of malignancy, yet they have one of the lowest in the world and they also have the third highest longevity (years from birth to death). Can't be the carbs. Most of what ails Americans is self inflicted, we do it to ourselves. Most of the cancers and heart disease we suffer from has nothing to do with aging and is attacking the younger populations. Over half the US population has at least one chronic health issue, we simply do not take care of ourselves because either we don't care or we don't know how (often it is the latter).

The dead at 40 thing is based upon faulty interpretation of demography statistics. A high child and infant mortality rate has given us a skewed view of our own life expectancy. Even if our life expectancy were longer (which it isn't) our quality of life is much lower because of the degenerative nature of the diseases of civilization. A person hundreds of years ago who lived to middle age (that means they survived childhood and adolescence) had just as much of a chance of living to 70 as we do now, they weren't dying at middle age though, they were dying in their youth.

As far as the sun goes, a lot of us are sick because we stay out of the sun too much. Not only does it supply vitamin D, but it is also responsible for our uptake of essential fatty acids and HPA function (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal axis). Humans need the sun just like animals and plants do, and within reason is not a cancer agent in and of itself.

Also, did I mention that arthritis was seen in none of the aforementioned prior to modernization? Primitive Maori, Yukon and Seminole indians are also of interest, as well as the Swiss before modernization, who guess what?.. spent a lot of time in the sun.

[Xiphus]

I don't have a single mole on my body, but I certainly have cancer cells inside of it, we all do. Cancer is not an old person's disease, otherwise you wouldn't have children and adolescents dying in droves from it. Most of the people I've known to succumb were far from old.

Also, if carbs caused cancer then I would fully expect the Cretians to have a high rate of malignancy, yet they have one of the lowest in the world and they also have the third highest longevity (years from birth to death). Can't be the carbs. Most of what ails Americans is self inflicted, we do it to ourselves. Most of the cancers and heart disease we suffer from has nothing to do with aging and is attacking the younger populations. Over half the US population has at least one chronic health issue, we simply do not take care of ourselves because either we don't care or we don't know how (often it is the latter).

The dead at 40 thing is based upon faulty interpretation of demography statistics. A high child and infant mortality rate has given us a skewed view of our own life expectancy. Even if our life expectancy were longer (which it isn't) our quality of life is much lower because of the degenerative nature of the diseases of civilization. A person hundreds of years ago who lived to middle age (that means they survived childhood and adolescence) had just as much of a chance of living to 70 as we do now, they weren't dying at middle age though, they were dying in their youth.

As far as the sun goes, a lot of us are sick because we stay out of the sun too much. Not only does it supply vitamin D, but it is also responsible for our uptake of essential fatty acids and HPA function (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal axis). Humans need the sun just like animals and plants do, and within reason is not a cancer agent in and of itself.

Also, did I mention that arthritis was seen in none of the aforementioned prior to modernization? Primitive Maori, Yukon and Seminole indians are also of interest, as well as the Swiss before modernization, who guess what?.. spent a lot of time in the sun.

Carbs is one of the reason, along with the very oxygen we breath in during respiration to break down the carbs. Remember that we oxidize carbs/proteins/fats and these create highly reactive oxygen species capable of causing damage to our DNA. Main reason why we haven't succumbed yet is because we do have enzymes dealing with those to convert them back to harmless oxygen and water. But they do accumulate over time. Also, cancer is also caused by background radiation, including UV B radiation from sunlight due to their obvious effects on DNA. The other stuff we eat can also contribute by wreacking havoc with your cell signalling events, which would actually end up telling your cells to be merry and replicate uncontrollably. And then there's also the possible DNA errors we rack up as our cells replicate. Normally, DNA errors are not a problem as our cells have checks against those, but if the genes encoding these DNA repair mechanisms fail for whatever reason, e.g. mutations, these cells will start replicating out of control. And the more your cells divide, the higher the chances of you getting errors escaping attention and the higher the likelihood of cancer developing. Cancer cells are destroyed all the time by your own immune system, but in the case of immunosuppression, these cells may escape notice and cause problems. All these possible causes of cancer are derived from both environment, inheritance and diet and the longer you live, the higher likelihood that you are going to develop cancer. Those you claimed to get cancer whilst young are either immunosuppressed for whatever reason, or are sunbathers, or they are either heterozygotes or homozygote recessives in the case of alleles which encodes for DNA checking mechanisms or checks and balances against signalling that would encourage your cells to start replicating rampantly.

Main reason why those tribes you mentioned hardly ever got skin cancer? Notice that their skin is dark. This shows high melanine pigmentation, and these protect the tribes from the damaging effects of UV radiation. Caucasians, on the other hand, do not have high levels of pigmentation, so they are all going to get sun cancer from staying under the sun. Why are all these tribes black? Because those who were white had all died from skin cancer way back. Natural selection at work over there. They can worry about other cancers and that's provided they haven't gotten killed by predators or parasitic infestations first.

And in middle ages, you really forgot what kind of shithole it was back there. No, you are not going to have as high a chance of living to 70 back then as you are now because you are going to be robbed, you are going to fall sick from cholera or you are going to be enlisted to a war or you will die from pollution. Good luck living to 70 when there's so much more things trying to kill you in the middle ages. Your life expectancy is not going to be high. Dying from cancer will be the least of your worries. And also, do not wave the lack of life expectancy to infant deaths. Infant deaths is a serious issue in the dark and middle ages, especially when it's one of those things that's providing fresh meat to keep the industry or agriculture running. It is thanks to the healthcare system we got now that our babies and their mothers are safe and not at risk of death by illnesses.

And improved quality of life? Really? Say that again if you are living without any access to proper medical support in case of illnesses and trash is accumulating in your backyard. That is what it was like in those days. And stone ages? Oh boy, you are going to have so much fun when you always risk life and limb trying to spear something and not getting pounced by some predator in some form. Oh, and don't forget food poisoning if you even think of keeping surplus meat around.

And I stand by my words. The older you get, the more screwed up your immune system gets, the more nasty things accumulate in your body and the more strained your cells get trying to clear cancer causing agents in you and the higher likelihood you are going to get cancer thanks to all that. Even if you have perfect genetics, your chances of getting cancer will still be increasing as you grow older, unless you decide to go someplace away from pollution, watch out of the amount of sunlight you decide to take in and watch your diet. In the past, you hardly hear of cancer mainly because most people keep dying from getting killed by something else.

Main reason why we start having such high incidence of cancer is because we have already dealt with infectious diseases, warfare, total lack of hygiene and predators, allowing us to live long enough to end up with cancer.

[Gorvena]

Wait so does that mean Cancer is the FIRST world wide pandemic?
Nope. Not infectious.

[Gorvena]

"You mess with the bull son, you get the horns." - Vice Principal Vernon

[Szordrin]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Carmen has a preponderance of evidence to justify her argument.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

Well, I do have several books and references.

I could use them to argue my point.

Stay tuned.

[opalexian]

THERE ARE NOW TWO CONFIRMED CASES ON OSU CAMPUS. WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE.

Although, I am kinda happy I'm going there-they're hardcore ready for an outbreak I think. The only place I'd feel safer living near is the CDC headquarters.



...oh wait, no I wouldn't. o_O

[Xiphus]

Well, I do have several books and references.

I could use them to argue my point.

Stay tuned.

I am more than happy to argue some more with you. We get to learn something from all this arguing.

[Szordrin]

A little late for a response, Xiphus. Carmen wont have interwebs for the time being until an unknown time.

[opalexian]

Also stop arguing in thread that is meant to spread fear, terror, and paranoia.

Poli-forum is 4 arguez. Shoo.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

Ah, well I really dislike arguing, even if I have a lot to back me up. It really isn't that important for me to be right. I guess this means I concede by default. : )

[Xiphus]

Oh, come on. Surely you have more ammo to shoot me with.

[opalexian]

Ah, well I really dislike arguing, even if I have a lot to back me up. It really isn't that important for me to be right. I guess this means I concede by default. : )

Aww, you don't need to do that...just join the poli forum! We need some fresh meatblood anyway ^^

*puts ballgag on Xiphus* There, much better >_>

[Szordrin]

poli forum *hiss hiss*