[Feedback] The Scarlet Enclave

[Malethia]

While in Tyr's Hand yesterday working on my lockpicking skill, I happened to wander into the Ruins of the Scarlet Enclave. If you've never seen it before, it's basically the non-instanced version of the Death Knight starting area.

The reason I bring this up is that it's currently empty.

On a whim, I started looking around. You have houses, inns, a blacksmith, a chapel, a town hall - all of them devoid of hostiles or even NPCs. It seems to me that you have an entire town just sitting there waiting to be used for something. That's when I thought that perhaps as an RP community we could come up with a project to use it for.

I have a couple of ideas in mind, but some of them would require the more hostile groups to put aside their hatreds so that isn't happening. I'd like to see if anyone else has any thoughts before I put out my own.

[Tiraline]

Annnnd Rohan pipes up IC with "OMG that belongs to the Crusade GRRRR stay out heathen!!!!" in 3...2...1...

...Seriously, though, this seems like an interesting location. If both factions can share it, it could be a real treat. If, however, we all wind up warring over it, that'll be no good.

Maybe some groups of open-minded folks from both sides could do a let's-live-in-peace project, see if everyone could REALLY get along? It could make for a very interesting RP thread here, too. The peace-interested guilds on both sides could send representatives...It could be nifty.

Dunamis would be interested in that.

But what were your ideas? Definitely curious.

[Ignas]

This intrigues me. I'm listening.

[Errigal]

Us kind folks in Infection look forward to hopping onto The Grim's back like the stallion it is and brandishing our swords in glorious IC PvP.

[Tiraline]

Us kind folks in Infection look forward to hopping onto The Grim's back like the stallion it is and brandishing our swords in glorious IC PvP.

If you're THAT bored.

[Yichimet]

Not bored, just bloodthirsty. RAWR!

[Malethia]

The first idea is a PvP zone. It's a large area with easily defined base camps and objectives, and the relative isolation would reduce the likelihood of outside interference. It's been done though, and while it might be fun it's not terribly inventive.

I had the idea of something similar to the Quel'Danas events, where a storyline played out on the boards would be guided by events in-game to rebuild this abandoned city into something else. We could use this addon (http://www.wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=16020) to create a trackable faction if we wanted to, and Arcane Workshop (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/arcane-workshop.aspx) can let us make items to support the quests.

One thing we could do is have players acting as NPCs. All they'd need to do is roll a lowbie, have a warlock summon them into the area, and leave them there to be played whenever the opportunity came up. Even if it was done Hordeside, Alliance players could participate by activating a trial account and rolling their own NPCs to play.

At any rate, I'd like to see something unique and fun to do with the area. That's why I was seeing if anyone else had suggestions.

[Tiraline]

The first idea is a PvP zone. It's a large area with easily defined base camps and objectives, and the relative isolation would reduce the likelihood of outside interference. It's been done though, and while it might be fun it's not terribly inventive.

I had the idea of something similar to the Quel'Danas events, where a storyline played out on the boards would be guided by events in-game to rebuild this abandoned city into something else. We could use this addon (http://www.wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=16020) to create a trackable faction if we wanted to, and Arcane Workshop (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/arcane-workshop.aspx) can let us make items to support the quests.

One thing we could do is have players acting as NPCs. All they'd need to do is roll a lowbie, have a warlock summon them into the area, and leave them there to be played whenever the opportunity came up. Even if it was done Hordeside, Alliance players could participate by activating a trial account and rolling their own NPCs to play.

At any rate, I'd like to see something unique and fun to do with the area. That's why I was seeing if anyone else had suggestions.

Hmm.

Yeeeeessss, very interesting indeed! A bit like Halaa, perhaps, where everything is available according to who controls the town?

A weekly RP-PvP event to see who controls, maybe, then it stays up and under the control of the winner until the next battle without interference? Whoever won last gets to defend? Participants get rep with the faction? "Merchants" there sell discounted awesome goods crafted/collected by mains as incentive, usual rep discounts?

The tricky part of that notion is how to determine who wins.

[Pyrisath]

I love this idea to a grand scale.

Not a weekly event, though. Not enough people would be able to make it. Maybe a bi or tri-weekly event? If enough people participate, then it could even be everyday... Though that would take a lot of planning. The main idea is that we have as many people able to participate as possible by opening more time slots. Maybe you could even add level ranges for different battles, and have higher levels enforce it? Sure, you can take a poll to see when the majority of people can make it, but you could get more of a total from having it more often.

Maybe have the zone strictly IC in /s, /y, but have a OOC 'zone' channel? If all goes well, we would have more than 40 people running around, and only a 'zone' channel could truly allow commands to be given. RP only might not work, though it would be a great way to promote us a RP/PvP haven.

The rewards part would be much easier. You recruit collectors to supply the war effort, so you have rep turn-ins just with basic crafting materials. Like, crafting materials give you rep, rep lets you buy potions/potions for cheaper. That way miners are encouraged to donate materials, and in return they can get cheap alchemy potions. This would be done offline, so not to cause confusion. And tokens, as brought up later, could be used as a second currency piece to prevent non-participants from getting welfare crafting bits.

And to tie into the idea of having more than one battle a week, you can have different battle types. King of the hill style, where the point is to control building *A* until clock hits a certain time(Time space divided into thirds, teams get tokens based on how many "thirds" they held it for in total), AB style, where there are different points depending on battle(switch in between/combine Crypt, Death's Breach, Beah, Harbor below the Keep, Chapel, Town Hall, Barracks, etc., etc.), Escort/assassination(Escort target across map, one team escorts the other team tries to assassinate escort target(s), or both escort and attack). Wow. Many possibilities with this.

[Yatokth]

I love this idea to a grand scale.

Not a weekly event, though. Not enough people would be able to make it. Maybe a bi or tri-weekly event? If enough people participate, then it could even be everyday... Though that would take a lot of planning. The main idea is that we have as many people able to participate as possible by opening more time slots. Maybe you could even add level ranges for different battles, and have higher levels enforce it? Sure, you can take a poll to see when the majority of people can make it, but you could get more of a total from having it more often.

Maybe have the zone strictly IC in /s, /y, but have a OOC 'zone' channel? If all goes well, we would have more than 40 people running around, and only a 'zone' channel could truly allow commands to be given. RP only might not work, though it would be a great way to promote us a RP/PvP haven.

The rewards part would be much easier. You recruit collectors to supply the war effort, so you have rep turn-ins just with basic crafting materials. Like, crafting materials give you rep, rep lets you buy potions/potions for cheaper. That way miners are encouraged to donate materials, and in return they can get cheap alchemy potions. This would be done offline, so not to cause confusion. And tokens, as brought up later, could be used as a second currency piece to prevent non-participants from getting welfare crafting bits.

And to tie into the idea of having more than one battle a week, you can have different battle types. King of the hill style, where the point is to control building *A* until clock hits a certain time(Time space divided into thirds, teams get tokens based on how many "thirds" they held it for in total), AB style, where there are different points depending on battle(switch in between/combine Crypt, Death's Breach, Beah, Harbor below the Keep, Chapel, Town Hall, Barracks, etc., etc.), Escort/assassination(Escort target across map, one team escorts the other team tries to assassinate escort target(s), or both escort and attack). Wow. Many possibilities with this.

This is awesome.

Dammit you make me want to start playing again... SOON.

[Cristok]

Sign me up! I am down to make this happen

[Bellsa]

I really like some of these ideas. This could be an extremely fun event as well as a selling point to get other roleplayer's interested in the community.


Escort/assassination(Escort target across map, one team escorts the other team tries to assassinate escort target(s), or both escort and attack). Wow. Many possibilities with this.
I think this one would be my choice. The win/lose line here seems like it would be more clear than the push and shove of controlling an unflagged building. If we did decide to do it King of the Hill style, why not make it easier to count heads on the winning team? Agreeing on something like no resurrection during the five minute battle could be a sure fire way to give us a "last team standing."

But anyway, who said we had to stick to just one type of battle for control? We could just as easily vote on different battle styles every other month or so to keep things exciting.

[Athin]

I like the idea.

But how would you handle the Alliance/Horde peoples who won't agree by the rules before hand?

[Pyrisath]

Don't start playing again yet, Yatokth. I've still got to get back on. ;P

Bellsa, Every other month would be too much of the same... It would be like Wintergrasp, but without siege vehicles, walls or turrets. Just banging your head against the desk until one side wins. As Mal said, we could add a story to this, and by adding story, we could mix up what battle types there are. Alliance and Horde push to control different areas, base camps are set up, people RP there while waiting for the next fight. We have campfires and feasts place-able already, and buildings to use as shelter, just need the campers. Horde Covert Ops seek unmarked sea passage to northern Northrend, Horde forces push to take the harbors/beaches there. Bleh, off topic. Anyways, spice and variety would keep people coming back to influence how the story goes, instead of trying to take the damned fortress back every three hours. We don't even follow conventional medieval siege warfare rules!

My mind has wandered due to thinking about your comment, Bellsa. The fighting does not only have to be at that one place... While it does defeat the purpose of an isolated area to fight, taking the story of the Horde Covert Ops taking the unmarked sea route, the group of Covert Ops could then decide a place and time and mission, announce vague place and mission, and Alliance forces could try and stop them. Just an additional thought, to see how people like it.

pondering upon rulebreakers...

[Swerto]

The enclave is a ruinous location, RP there if you like but it belongs to nobody.

Not the crusade, not you, nor anybody else.

Well maybe the Ebon Blade... but still.


You want to fight over it, I'll gladly bring my blades to fight for my homeland.

I will rend flesh this night!

[Taknar]

But how would you handle the Alliance/Horde peoples who won't agree by the rules before hand?

You mean in a completely secluded area, with cooperating Alliance and Horde, you can't find a way to handle rulebreakers? *large grin*

You really do fit Sanctuary well ;D

My personal opinion is that having a set event to control the area will lead to two things: First, people will tend to show up for the control events, and it will be mostly a ghost town in between. Second, those who show up between the control events may not have any clue as to who owns the town properly.

I think breaking the buildings up among the Horde and Alliance and letting a few neutral PvP areas exist would be a good compromise. If we go through with this, I will (along with Yatokth I'm sure) put my full effort into getting the Raven Cross' full commitment.

[Swerto]

I say all Death Knights should be part of a third faction, that of the Ebon Hold, and should fight to expel both factions away from Acherus.

[Taknar]

I say all Death Knights should be part of a third faction, that of the Ebon Hold, and should fight to expel both factions away from Acherus.

No point. *I* can't even get up that stupid broken teleportation circle at this point. I'm not too concerned about it.

Besides, if they do make it in I want to see Darion and crew roflstomp them all =D

[Tiraline]

Now you've got my curiosity going at full blast.

Issa and I may have to make a trip to have a look at the place--again--but how about the inn being a faction-neutral location, if you decide to divide? I realize the World's End Tavern is much the same, but it's really cluttered with obnoxious NPCs and there's nowhere to sit.

Because of its location, yes, it might be a ghost town a fair amount of time. But if you set up "We're going to be at the Enclave at X o'clock on Yday," it'll be populated part of the time at least.

[Tiraline]

Okay, another idea, just from the top of my head. Two factions resident in the zone, neither Horde nor Alliance.

One is the Scarlet Reclamation. The other is the Ebon Shield.

The Reclamation could be: a group of Scarlets who don't appreciate the way the Crusade and Onslaught have gone. They still cling to the original notion of the Crusade--which you gotta admit was a kinda good idea before it was corrupted--and want to help in the effort against Arthas, while trying to rebuild their colony. They hate DKs with a passion because...well, they never did really apologize for what happened a while back, and they don't really seem to care about all those murdered civilians.

Their rivals could be the Ebon Shield, made up of Acherus' people who, as Swerto suggested, want the Enclave as a buffer zone for the ziggurat. As I'm not super-fond of DKs, someone else can make up the reason for them not to be total jerks about rivalry with the Reclamation.

If you divide the area up to make it kind of an "uneasy truce" zone, it might be cool to have rival factions like that--with the occasional blow-up for PvP excitement.

Not original, sure, but what do y'all think?

[Cyrass]

An idea: Shifting the objectives based on the previous results. The more one side wins, the further entrenched they become and the longer it will take to wrestle the area from enemy control. Maybe divide it into some kind of phases. Kind of like this:

H4 - H3 - H2 - H1 - Neutral/Contested - A1 - A2 -A3 -A4


H4 means that Horde has full control of the Enclave, and that the Alliance objective would be to gain a foothold. To make it so one side doesn't always have a lock on the Enclave, maybe the more entrenched you are the harder your objective is. Being at H4 means it's harder for the Horde to win than it would be at H1.



The rewards part would be much easier. You recruit collectors to supply the war effort, so you have rep turn-ins just with basic crafting materials. Like, crafting materials give you rep, rep lets you buy potions/potions for cheaper. That way miners are encouraged to donate materials, and in return they can get cheap alchemy potions. This would be done offline, so not to cause confusion. And tokens, as brought up later, could be used as a second currency piece to prevent non-participants from getting welfare crafting bits.
Missed this part.

Anyways, maybe we should get some dedicated crafters on both side. Maybe set up some bank/crafting alts in dedicated guilds that are supposed to represent an Affiliate faction of our respective factions. Something akin to Warsong Outriders and whatever the Alliance counterpart of that is.

[Kaliera]

I don't like the idea of turning the area into "contested territory" beyond the game's format applied to Eastern Plaguelands in general, but I do fully support active RP potential in the area.

Kaliera occasionally returns to the place to pay respects to her fallen friend who gave his life to save her own while she was still brainwashed (olol DK starting plot). It would be interesting to bump into someone else there in the process, be it for RP, or RP-based PvP in the case of folks like Rohan. :D

[Swerto]

Think of two factions in an Aldor/Scryer style

Scarlet Crusade Vs. Ebon Blade probably wouldn't work out,


Think more like a Lordaeran Reclamation faction vs. Ebon Blade buffer zone.

Both factions are well meaning, the Ebon Blade simply wants to protect their front, and Lorderaan Reclamation wants to start a new human bastion in Lordaeron away from the scourge.

This way Alliance that aren't human as well as Horde could help with the Lordaeron Reclamation, as well as the Ebon Blade.

[Tiraline]

Think of two factions in an Aldor/Scryer style

Scarlet Crusade Vs. Ebon Blade probably wouldn't work out,


Think more like a Lordaeran Reclamation faction vs. Ebon Blade buffer zone.

Both factions are well meaning, the Ebon Blade simply wants to protect their front, and Lorderaan Reclamation wants to start a new human bastion in Lordaeron away from the scourge.

This way Alliance that aren't human as well as Horde could help with the Lordaeron Reclamation, as well as the Ebon Blade.

Even more awesome. The one thing I can think of is that the vast majority of DKs would wind up allied with the Ebon Shield. (Ebon Blade is an existing faction, IIRC.) But is that so bad?

...Yes, I know DKs don't use shields. But it still sounds cool.

[Swerto]

Ebon Shield is kinda... meh.

I'm sure we can find a better name for both.


Like Lordaeron Reborn and Ebon Curtain

[Tiraline]

Ebon Shield is kinda... meh.

I'm sure we can find a better name for both.


Like Lordaeron Reborn and Ebon Curtain

Everyone's a critic.

All right, smart aleck. How about the Regiment to Undo Lordaeron's Eradication versus the Deathknight Resurgence Order Of Lordaeron?

RULE vs. DROOL.

*waits patiently for Swerto to stop screaming in anguish*

...Don't EVER challenge me again. I can make you hurt.

[Swerto]

I will find you,

I will shove my axe into the back of your head

You will taste pain before the end of this day.

[Lysimachus]

One side or the other will end up savagely murdering the other, in disregard of the rules. All it takes is one person to get out of hand.

There's no way this would ever work as a cross-faction affair -- not more than once, before the griefers start showing up. Yanno?

[Tiraline]

I will find you,

I will shove my axe into the back of your head

You will taste pain before the end of this day.

Typical Hordie, solve everything with your weapons.

But hey, good luck with that. Issa and I tend to hang out in obscure areas, or non-flaggy zones.

[Swerto]

Keeping it in the RP community should be just fine.


Don't let the griefers know, how would they find out otherwise?


Also it's a PvP zone, let them grief and get their faces pummeled in.

Also I almost got my loremaster, PLEASE let me put my tabard to use by giving out dailies.

[Tiraline]

All it takes is one person to get out of hand.

Then we RP out the solution, perhaps? Or post guards? I hope we're all mature enough not to try to spoil a potentially good thing here.

Yes, I am using that "we" a bit freely.

I'm curious, though; how do people generally communicate cross-faction? If we have the Redemption of Lordaeron/Ebon Bulwark (yes, working on it) rivalry admitting both Allies and Horde, how would you work communication? Granted, there isn't any with the NPC factions, but we assume they're handling communications for us.

I have a notion for cross-faction item exchange, too...but it's a bit complicated and a touch risky. Depends also on whether there's a mailbox...

[Pyrisath]

Funny thing about griefers and such showing up. It keeps people on the edge. Seeing as how we already do night attacks with siege and break all other conventional rules of warfare, why would we not have surprise attacks with no capture objectives? Large crowd of griefers attack Horde RPers in between battle, they go "lolololol we capped lolololol", Event runners say "L2P, cap during designated hours." They try and hold it till next battle, they get flattened by oncoming Horde players.

It all works out to unless griefers show up with every damn person on the server, they will get ganked horribly by RPers who want to hold their peace. Besides, it would be a war ground. *I* would ridicule people for putting on non-combat gear there.

Non-RPers would need to know. We should not keep this as a members only gift. Like I said before, this could help us become the RP-PvP haven. Also what Tiraline said. Post guards, RP the solution. They can kick our ass, but they can never kick our freedom to RP. But also, how would we RP the cause of the dissent between Alliance/Horde on this matter?

But this would not work as two cross-faction player-made factions. The name for it is too long for one, and it also gives people free HK's. What I spoke of above is also why I think it would be Horde vs. Alliance trying to gain aid from the Ebon Blade in Northrend. That might not stick, but you get the idea. There are great strategic advantages to controlling that area. Also seeing how Alliance and Horde already fight over the rest of EPL... This is just a player-made continuation of that conflict. Not to mention the conflicts with giving rewards...

I like the idea of entrenchment, Cristok. Maybe it could be time Alliance has to take the place? H1 would have a short time before Alliance are beaten back, but H4 they have over an hour? Clearly this would be a moving battle, so the battle would start midfield, and the other team is trying to reach Death's Breach from the Chapel.

[Tiraline]

I hate to be a Nellie Naysayer, but...would there really be enough participation on both sides to un-entrench a faction, as it were?

I dunno about the idea of entrenchment. Just seems like, after a while, it'd get boring, spending an hour trying to throw people out just so you can have the place to RP for a little while before they come back and throw YOU out.

Also, the "fighting" over EPL is just basically standing around in a tower for a few minutes. Issa and I have done this quite a lot, but have only once actually fought someone for the tower--which he didn't stick around to capture himself after he snuffed us (a 73 DK versus a 62 mage and 62 pally--and he almost got smoked himself, I daresay).

Maybe it's because I'm a girl, but the idea of sharing the place--however volatile such sharing might be--really appeals to me now that I've thought about it. One often thinks that Shattrath or Dalaran is a bit boring because you CAN'T fight there; the Enclave as a PvP-active but neutral location is a little more believable.

...Keeping people from excessive gankage would call for cooperation between the factions, but I think it's do-able, if we can be mature and considerate--which I think we can.

*shrug*

[Swerto]

Might want to stop doing that, I actually do patrol the plaguelands ICly with Swerto, he considers them Forsaken territory.

[Rohan Orcslayer]

Personally, as the TNG's most notable living Scarlet, I don't think the land should be fought upon.

It is after all a monument to crimes of the Death Knights against humanity, and I feel petty land battles would just distract people from the atrocities commited there.

Not saying I discourage RP there... Such as grieving for the dead or a Death Knight coven... I just rather keep the Horde/Alliance politics out of the Enclave.

[Tiraline]

Might want to stop doing that, I actually do patrol the plaguelands ICly with Swerto, he considers them Forsaken territory.

Well and fine; we've moved on to other lands anyway. Just 90 more quests to Loremaster of Kalimdor!

[Tiraline]

Personally, as the TNG's most notable living Scarlet, I don't think the land should be fought upon.

It is after all a monument to crimes of the Death Knights against humanity, and I feel petty land battles would just distract people from the atrocities commited there.

Not saying I discourage RP there... Such as grieving for the dead or a Death Knight coven... I just rather keep the Horde/Alliance politics out of the Enclave.

We were wondering how long it'd take you to weigh in. :p

So...you likes the shared-by-both-sides thing, but not the turn-it-into-a-BG thing?