Server Lore: Family Histories / Networking

[Leoren]

History.

What does it really mean to our characters?

I've been talking with a few people concerning this very concept on our server, and what's often more the case than not is no matter how well thought out a character background or family tree might be, such details are usually inconsequential to actual every day RP. People announce themselves as various branches of nobility, and all our characters really have to go on is their word at face value. This isn't just relevant to Blood Elf role players, but also some of the many wonderful background stories to come out of all the races. From the Orc clans to the Tauren tribes, a lot of the player background stories have predominantly been written in isolation. Rather than be something relevant to other players in their perception of and role play with your characters, they more often than not find themselves coming off as shallow or irrelevant.

What I was hoping to propose was solidifying player contributions of their characters' lore into a greater pool that we might call the Twisting Nether's own. The main requirement for this to work of course would be to respect the foundations and framing of the official lore in place, not be too outlandish as to make any character background jarring to the whole picture. When someone introduces me their character's full name, I'd -love- to actually have my character have some understanding of their history as they might were the world truly living and breathing, achieving a greater appreciation for the significance a name or family tie might hold. If only to fight the harrowing feeling that the RPer in front of me is making something fancy up on the fly, and expects my character to believe it at face value and suddenly assume some recognition or look like a git ( usually the latter occurs ).

I've been hearing alot of complaining about RP being cliquish or segregated, and I don't genuinely believe that's entirely due to choice. Alot of RP characters are simply uninformed about one another, as let's face it, their knowledge of other characters is limited to our own, and then often guarded by the OOC / IC divide unless specified otherwise by some means. I thought this at least might remedy it. Instead of hiding away a family's history in every individual character bio, we could compile sticky threads for each socities amongst the Horde and Alliance factions. Much like many of the other LFRP channels here, players could state how available they'd be to entwining their histories more intimately with another's, the potential of the end product being infinite. Rival clans? Family political intrigue? Cross faction relations? If anything they can make their stories a little more real and relevant by projecting it out into the common knowledge of other characters ( who at least pay attention to such things or became involved in the relevant societies ). Depending on how expansive the story might be, people could submit as little or as much of the story as might be deemed public knowledge. Something that usual rumour mills and whisperings would be able to inform most people in usual day to day life.

In a largely static MMO world as WoW is, the biggest focus of RP is within the interpersonal relationships between our characters. For most RP in MMOs for that matter. What I'd hope for a project like this is to help broaden and further that for the greater community at large. Perhaps there's a fair number of people who'd have no reason to RP with others outside their immediate circle / guild, as many have stated in the past. With a group effort like this, I'd imagine it would help alleviate that immensely and give people more to work with than trying to spark interesting RP for the sake of it.

Of course, the design process of how to most neatly make threads / stickies with this goal in mind is still up in the air, and largely dependant on player feed back. So here's the point I'd throw the ball back to you all and see where others stand on the matter.

[Cyrass]

As I said with you earlier this morning, I am in favor of something like this. You've already said most of what I'd wanted to say except that maybe that in addition to what you've stated, it might also be easier to get a some baseline RPs going with someone who you've never RP'd with before, but logically their character should have at least had some contact; such as say Blood Elf nobility, where in you're sure to at least have heard of the family.

[Vilmah]

Could you use the Wiki for this? It's good for collecting information and having it branch out into more information. I know I put up a LOT of family history there, and you can even have family trees and such.

[Imara]

I LOVE this idea because I love anything that would spark random RP.

Liadain's got the most extensive background on the server of any of my characters (rolled in her original incarnation, as a human, the night the server opened). She also has an extensive history pre-creation thanks to all of the cross-faction RP I've done with the Blades of Lordaeron, Morghoul and The Crimson Watch.

There are about a billion ways someone might know her, or know of her, and I am ALWAYS open to RP.

There are a lot of miscellaneous writings scattered around the TNG but the bulk of her info can be found in these spots:

Liadain Greyhame (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=6141)
The Crimson Tainted Blade (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=144)
Things Fall Apart (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=11379)
A Leatherbound Book with a Wolf's Head Clasp (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=11462)

In summary, you might know of Liadain (or her family) if you:

Work for or with the Argent Dawn/Argent Crusade/Ebon Blade
Have had any dealings with the Bloodsail Buccaneers
Have had any dealings with the Southsea Freebooters
Have had any dealings with the Blades of Lordaeron
Have ties to/have lived in Silvermoon City (recently), Stormwind, Theramore, Moonbrook, Menethil or Lordaeron (pre-war, see Lia's parent's history)
Know of Celethorn Greyhame
Know of Morghoul
Know of Deebum Felsprocket
Are a member (past or present) of The Crimson Watch, The Grim, The Rooks, the Tears of Elune

I'm sure I could think of more doors to open...

Come on let's get this rolling! :D

[Maithanet]

What Lia is trying to say is that she's been around the block.

More than once.

I'll post something when I get back in a few.

[Vilmah]

What Lia is trying to say is that she's been around the block.

Oh SNAP.

Also, again, the Wiki could be REALLY useful for this. I wish more people used it, it's a great tool.

[Cyrass]

Oh SNAP.

Also, again, the Wiki could be REALLY useful for this. I wish more people used it, it's a great tool.

It is a good tool, but one of the problems with putting all this information on the wiki is the wiki gets neglected from what I've seen of it, and that it would be better to put it on the forums, at least to start with, so that it wouldn't get left behind and forgotten.

[Leoren]

Also, again, the Wiki could be REALLY useful for this. I wish more people used it, it's a great tool.

The general reason I wanted to steer away from it, is because most people don't tend to use it. The key idea was to make something easily accessible and interactive. The Wiki is a great tribute to our server, but at the moment it's not tailored for the ends this idea is. I very much liked the Expanded Lore section, but in its current form has failed to provide an avenue that can easily be kept at the forefront of the community's attention, on point and up to date. I'd like to very much shy away from the individual character bio format of it. If anything, I'd like to think of that as a repository, and these threads as a starter guide into them. Something easily digestible to catch the interest of other players, and specifically including details pertinent to how open or closed a set history might be to involvement of others. Much of the writing in the Wiki and character bios don't guide the reader into what's private, or deemed as public knowledge and thus available for use in every day RP. This is to stream line what is.

[Roth'rili]

I am a little confused at the idea, I mean I get the gist of it just not the execution. For example are we writing basically lets say prequels of our character before the MMO. Thus kind of like a open story that someone can jump into with the character and then open up new RP avenues ingame (since the characters would have known or met in the prequel story being conducted).

If its like that it sounds cool. Doing a history tie type thing gained me a good friend once before, the history didn't mesh though it opened up a new RP the two characters played out with her teasing Roth about who he thought she was. It be a nice way to simply bring back Roth in someone's past, and a nice way for me to play a passed away character (though conclusions could not happen in game since Roth isn't there no more).

But yeah if I am misunderstanding though I blame lack of sleep do to GY work heh. But I like anything that opens up new RP avenues for people that know each other already or people yet to meet, splendid idea Leo

[Vales]

/angryface


USE THE WIKI!

I did, and do - Also for those interested;

Vales has been with Infection a long time, before his death, he was an actual patrolman of the Stormwind Guard, and an honored hero having fallen at the defense of Lordaeron during the second wave of scourge attacks. He was no "big name", and merely a hero for having been there. There is more if you care to read the bio or wiki on him.

He's had major involvement in the Hand of Vengeance, and the formation of Vengeance Landing as a point of entry.
He's been involved with a few guilds, The Grim, Death before Dishonor and Sanctuary, though aside from the late DbD, nothing major.
He's a former Master Alchemist to the Royal Apothecary Society.
Royal Guard to Sylvanas (as are most of Infection's upper ranks)

[Vilmah]

Maybe if the Wiki were advertised more?

Or what if we did a daily spotlight on one character? That way every week, everyone could read about someone new, rather than be bombarded with a hundred posts about a hundred characters a day.

[Imara]

The general reason I wanted to steer away from it, is because most people don't tend to use it. The key idea was to make something easily accessible and interactive. The Wiki is a great tribute to our server, but at the moment it's not tailored for the ends this idea is. I very much liked the Expanded Lore section, but in its current form has failed to provide an avenue that can easily be kept at the forefront of the community's attention, on point and up to date. I'd like to very much shy away from the individual character bio format of it. If anything, I'd like to think of that as a repository, and these threads as a starter guide into them. Something easily digestible to catch the interest of other players, and specifically including details pertinent to how open or closed a set history might be to involvement of others. Much of the writing in the Wiki and character bios don't guide the reader into what's private, or deemed as public knowledge and thus available for use in every day RP. This is to stream line what is.

I realize that in my explosion of RP nerd I probably didn't elaborate on what I think would be most helpful. Basically, I think something simple and to the point would be ideal.

That list I made up there for Lia is what I think would be great. Someone reads how they could potentially know your character, then they contact you accordingly.

If they just want to bump into you with general knowledge, having heard your name before in some circle, etc., that is feasible. Or they could come to you OOC to see how they could actually be tied into your history. How they could have met you, or a relative, before.

[Leoren]

I am a little confused at the idea, I mean I get the gist of it just not the execution. For example are we writing basically lets say prequels of our character before the MMO. Thus kind of like a open story that someone can jump into with the character and then open up new RP avenues ingame (since the characters would have known or met in the prequel story being conducted).

Though it could be used by players to pursue something of the sort, the main intention is to establish a history behind a family name and maybe an extended family tree. Instead of a newcomer to the server wading into a sea of strangers, something like this would allow them to familiarize themselves instantly with the society their character had grown into. The key objective is immersion.

[Vilmah]

What about a sticky in the Nether Legends, with a list of family names? Each of the family names could link to actual posts with that family's history?

[Taknar]

Shying away from the wiki doesn't make much sense. You should choose the medium that best fits what you are trying to do. If it becomes popular, the wiki will become popular as a result. Just make sure you are always referencing the wiki in posts on the forum.

I'm not sure which medium would be better for the idea you're thinking of though. I'll have to think about that more.

[Cyrass]

What about a sticky in the Nether Legends, with a list of family names? Each of the family names could link to actual posts with that family's history?

Or, if we would try to promote the wiki, a link to an article in that.

[Bruuin]

What about a sticky in the Nether Legends, with a list of family names? Each of the family names could link to actual posts with that family's history?

Man, mine would be so short.

Family Tree: Broxigan Lok'rosh

The End! :D

[Vilmah]

Or, if we would try to promote the wiki, a link to an article in that.

There ya go!

[Vales]

So, after 30 seconds of thought and typing, added my wiki to my sig as well as the guild main page and wiki for Vales. And that's a simple promotion!

[Villayna]

What you are proposing is exactly what the Expanded Lore (http://wiki.wow-tng.org/index.php/Expanded_Lore) section of the wiki is for.

If you can figure out a better way to implement it, go for it. I don't really care how people get their RP out there as long as they do it.

[Maithanet]

So, serious question, if I type out Celethorns family tree, filled with nobodies except for what I know of them in my own head, how exactly does this benefit anyone?

[Lysimachus]

So, serious question, if I type out Celethorns family tree, filled with nobodies except for what I know of them in my own head, how exactly does thie benefit anyone?

I expect part of the idea might be to communicate with other RPers of the same race to possibly create connections.

[Roth'rili]

Heh yeah I am still confused from what people are saying is making me go wait...I could look at a character Bio (which people are pointing to) I could do that before hand. I thought it was more of open stories of the past people can really jump into, get into and write about (fill in some history gaps). Then be like READ MY BIO HAR HAR LAZY! Maybe if you mean like its a form of putting out there what wholes are in your characters history, for someone to find and help fill in. Basically sending PMs and just organizing a pretty much closed history of the two involved peoples PMing.

Something like RPing a old relative, for example Roth's father, in a thread would most likely set a foundation for the ingame character to know something about them ICly, without taking OOC info and breaking the wall by reading a person's history in a Bio and jumping right in. For me that be something I be interested in cause I know if a story was played out by say Roth's father, Roth would know the people his father associated with. Thus he would (if it was good relations) honestly follow by respecting thats person's choice in RPing a noble family if met ingame.

I do agree with you though, while RPing on Roth it was rather hard just to jump in and start calling a lot of people Lord and Lady, Baron and Baroness. Where was the reason for him and me to use a honorific by their word alone? I would love to see the idea work, wiki or no wiki, to get involved in these noble families and reputations. This did happen a lot though (or I surrounded myself in it most times), to where I felt like Roth was the only real peasant boy running around having to /bow to every PC that ran by.

[Naheal]

I'll try to work on the Wiki a bit more later. I rarely ever actually look at it, though.

Here's some bits from my history:

Grew up as lower nobility (no real power). Malastar family line.
Was a mage for most of his life.
Had a twin brother (dead).
Guilds associated with: Order of Eversong, Rutilus Luna, Raven Cross, The Cartel Enforcers, Underground. Currently in Order of Eversong again.
Once held the Vindicator title amongst the Aldor.
Trained new Blood Knights before being thrown out.
Thrown out of the Blood Knights for "use of brutal training methods" (there's more to that story, but that's the official statement).

[Roth'rili]

True I haven't hardly looked at the wiki myself that much either. Though like Vill said it does seem like a place basically of the same idea. I like it *snaps fingers* it wont get much use with this character though. I will remember it when developing a new one I can really get into.

[Vales]

So, serious question, if I type out Celethorns family tree, filled with nobodies except for what I know of them in my own head, how exactly does this benefit anyone?

Say, you've an Uncle John? Was he in the 3rd Brigand of Silvermoon? We were in the same plattoon, you're his nephew right? Yeah. You still with the Silvermoon Forces? ..and so on..

It creates entry points, something for people to walk up and START the conversation, and that's the biggest leap.

[Imara]

Again... I do think it would be helpful to have a thread stickied somewhere with a list, something like the one I made for Lia up there, that gives an abbreviated summary of ways you might know of a character.

That way newcomers and existing folks can find ways to make new connections. For instance...

Celethorn makes a list and includes that fact he was present at the Battle of Mount Hyjal. Random RPer notices that, wanted their character to be tied to Hyjal somehow too, and contacts Celethorn to get something rolling.

The condensed nature of it would be nice because it means you don't have to rely on stumbling on the story when browsing randomly, etc.

[Vilmah]

The Wiki is GREAT. You click on someone's name and within their bio, there are links to other points. So if someone's brother is linked, you can read all about him, and so forth.

[Leoren]

What about a sticky in the Nether Legends, with a list of family names? Each of the family names could link to actual posts with that family's history?

While this would help lead towards the effect intended, it would still only serve to refashion the character bios as family entities instead. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, though as we've seen defeats the purpose when a lot of this information isolates itself in their own self contained sections. For this idea to work, the posts would need to be:

A.) Rewritten in a style that would provide the information to such a degree that would be reasonable / believable in the public. Some details in most bios I've read are rather intimate in their details, where we'd be going for a much cleaner summary style posts that people could familiarize themselves quickly, and then read into more depth if they so choose ( via actual bios or wiki etc ). Leoren's I wrote with the intention of being as vague as possible to allude to what can be deemed public information, but I know not everyone's is.
B.) Have specific tags as to which society said family / clan / tribe belonged to for quick reference.
C.) Contain specific outlines of how interested the owner(s) behind the particular family history / storyline is for involvement or interaction with others. This can be as specific for looking for an inlaw to be married to 'x' uncle or as broad as 'looking to interact with other high brow'.

How I'd propose we'd go about this:

Create several new 'Server Lore' stickies in this section or even create a whole new sub forum. Some of the following thread titles would be simply as below:

"Server Lore - Sin'Dorei"
"Server Lore - Orcs"
"Server Lore - Humans / Forsaken"
etc.

The reason I'd even split these up in the first place is simply for quick navigation. Playing an an Orc elitist unlikely to have kept up in any of the Silvermoon drama and just want to get the run down of the world around your green avatar? Any server lore offered up by players in the community revolving around that area will be easily collected in one place.

Any updates to any of the threads would obviously have a shiny new bump which is far easier to keep track of here than having to troll the Wiki as well, helping newcomers get some of the spotlight. And I need to stress this: Having something accessible like this HELPS navigation of the Wiki. You can link your short posts up the wazoo for all I care, but if you're anything like me, unless those large blocks of text can be made interesting to me in the first place, I will likely not spend the time digging in the off chance that I'd eventually find something I'd care about. This is an exercise of making it all relevant to each individual, as cleanly and efficiently as possible.

Edit: I'm still working on a template idea for the 'form' so to speak each of these threads would have.

[Vilmah]

That would go well in the RP Help/Networking area.

[Imara]

The Wiki is GREAT. You click on someone's name and within their bio, there are links to other points. So if someone's brother is linked, you can read all about him, and so forth.

I think the wiki is good as well... the only problem is you have to rely on people actually linking and making the web. XD

[Vilmah]

I think the wiki is good as well... the only problem is you have to rely on people actually linking and making the web. XD

Very true, which I wish more people would do because it makes navigating through people's histories so much easier. x_x

[Evanthe]

Perhaps you can make Leoren's to show an example of what you're thinking?

[Imara]

Very true, which I wish more people would do because it makes navigating through people's histories so much easier. x_x

I just updated mine. And tried to catch links. :D

[Vilmah]

I just updated mine. And tried to catch links. :D

Glee! :D

[Maithanet]

Maybe Vilmah's Wiki can explain how she de-aged. I thought she was eighteen now.

[Vilmah]

Maybe Vilmah's Wiki can explain how she de-aged. I thought she was eighteen now.

I wrote about that here (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=15514).

[Pyrisath]

I think that it would be better to maybe make a "Server lore" sticky thread, that either sends links off to different sections for house names by race(Rather than all in one group), or just to subforums. As it is, the wiki needs to be tidied up quite a bit before I could see it used how Leoren wants it use, which in no doubt is a brilliant idea.

Opinion by idea: WIKI: Clean it up, order it out!
SUBFORUM: Might take too much room, but a good idea nonetheless.


EDIT: The point of this seems to be, "You lived in the city, you would know this about this house." Basically, instead of someone PMing you and saying "Hey, our characters probably knew each other" You can just walk up, recognize someone out of nowhere simply because you know that they were at XXX when XXX happened. While it probably is not likely you saw everyone, the people who followed Kael'Thas around probably saw each other at least once.

Or, even better, when you write things about your house, you can leave open places for other characters to play. In a sense, you say "Two cousins, one boy and one girl(BOTH OPEN)", then when someone joins the server they can contact you or the HoH about filling that spot, and they already have someone to RP with, rather than searching for connections, because they remember you. It also leaves much much room open for character creativity, because the only tie is that you are of clan/house XXX.

[Athin]

I think the Wiki would be a great place for that. It can be set up for categories like you've mentioned: you click on the category and see each article that has been tagged by it.

And, if I get what you're saying: these bio's would be more of a "public knowledge" thing, rather then the more intimate bios we post in the bio section? I like that idea too.

[Leoren]

Perhaps you can make Leoren's to show an example of what you're thinking?

This is by no means an exhaustive list, but I thought I'd write something of an example to get the ball rolling.




House Evershine

Notoriety:

< This field would be used to help guide the reader in understanding how eligible their characters might know of the provided information. >

Until recent times they were a well respected name within the borders of Quel'Danas. Though far from celebrated, the details surrounding their family would be readily available to any reputable mage circles, courtiers and noble families.

Evershine History:

< This field would provide a commonly available ( or as specified otherwise above ) summary of the family’s history. >

The name has existed for some generations. It is said that as long as can be remembered, their kin was characterized by their service to the monarchy ever since the crowning of Dath’Remar Sunstrider. From humble origins as mere court chroniclers, librarians and astronomers would emerge a venerable line of mages. Through the course of time it would be this very proficiency at the arcane that would distinguish the family and elevate them to a modest degree of nobility, more than its fair share of descendents rising to seats amongst Dalaran’s wizard council following its foundation.

Historic Allies:

< Family / Clan / Tribe / Individual’s Name > : < Short summary of how the alliance / friendship bloomed, what characterized it, or at least however much the public might know. Links can be embedded to existing wiki / bio pages where relevant. >.

Historic Rivals:

< Family / Clan / Tribe / Individual’s Name > : < Short summary of how the rivalry / hatred / animosity started, what characterized it, or at least how much the public would know. Links can be embedded to existing wiki / bio pages where relevant. >.

Evershine Current Status:

< A brief summary of the family’s current standing, which is more than likely defined by the family’s note worthy individuals. >

With their extended family wiped out by the Scourge, what wealth and estate to the name long decayed even before the tragedy, any air of nobility the name might have had has been dispelled. The recent Farstrider Square Massacre had the family’s last remaining scion Leoren at the centre of the incident, the name now inspiring either contempt or admiration within Silvermoon’s walls depending on the individual. The name’s reputation is now invariably tied to that of the newly founded band the Raven Cross, Leoren having lead as their first Patriarch.

Note Worthy Individuals:

< A brief run down of any prominent figures in the family, providing a short summary explaining their relevance. Can be either player characters or NPCs from the past or present, can be used to create RP hooks for others to tie their stories along side. Links can be embedded to existing wiki / bio pages where relevant. >

Surianne Evershine – The late mage lord, once seat holder within Dalaran’s wizard council. Was the last to uphold the proud heritage of the family’s arcane tradition before losing his life to a marauding war band of Amani trolls.
Leoren Evershine – etc etc

( OOC ) House Evershine is interested in:

< Basically this is the LFRP part. This basically advertises what you’d like to do with the lore you’re submitting and what you’re available for. Can be as brief or as particular as the owner sees fit. >



Establishing historic allies and rivals within Silvermoon’s history.
Connecting and writing storylines / plots with other families.
Finding someone to play ‘x’ relative.
Open to suggestion regarding possible extended family relations.



Edit: Not perfect I know, but it's 4:00 am here and I should get some sleep x.x

[Saphiara]

I think that part of what Leoren is desiring is some kind of tool that would allow people to form a preliminary opinion of someone's character based on things that would theoretically be common knowledge. An example:

Malethia's house, Blazestone, is supposed to be a well-known family of fire mages that has existed for thousands of years. In theory, anyone familiar with Silvermoon nobility or arcane lore should know the name. So, on those rare occasions when Malethia introduces herself as a Blazestone, Random Blood Elf Mage could go "So why are you a priestess instead of following your proud family tradition?"

[Evanthe]

I think the best way to do this is to put it in the RP Networking forum, keep the information short and sweet with links to the wiki for more indepth information.

This will make the information readily accessible to new players at a glance, with promotion of the wiki for those who want more information about a certain house, clan, etc.

[Qabian]

I'd be up for something like that. Unfortunately, with what I have constructed, it couldn't really be a complete, historical "family line" per se, at least in the same sense as Leoren's, especially as the name I'm abusing is used by an NPC and other PCs, most of whom are completely unconnected with my character in any way, but there are definitely some particular family history related details that I have developed that could/should/might be common knowledge that I could work into a similar - if modified to suit my situation - template.

[Imara]

So... contrary to the initial post which stated this was to combat the elitism... you are really only directing this at people who's characters claim remarkable and/or noteworthy lineage?

I apologize and now understand why my thought process wasn't on track. -I- thought you were just looking for a way to compile and simplify people/places/things in characters' backgrounds to spark random RP.

I suppose my question now is... Why not just post a thread about the family in the Character Bio thread? Doesn't seem like that would be any more/less convoluted.

[Maithanet]

So... contrary to the initial post which stated this was to combat the elitism... you are really only directing this at people who's characters claim remarkable and/or noteworthy lineage?

I apologize and now understand why my thought process wasn't on track. -I- thought you were just looking for a way to compile and simplify people/places/things in characters' backgrounds to spark random RP.

I suppose my question now is... Why not just post a thread about the family in the Character Bio thread? Doesn't seem like that would be any more/less convoluted.

I kinda have to agree with this. None of Celethorn's relatives would be even remotely noteworthy, his father was a private librarian and his mother was X Mage No. 1,543,784 whom he never really saw, thus rendering my family tree useless (Which is pretty much what I said before).

I'm not sure why we'd need a seperate thread for family history, unless to glorify ourselves.

[Vilmah]

I suppose my question now is... Why not just post a thread about the family in the Character Bio thread? Doesn't seem like that would be any more/less convoluted.

Exactly. It would keep from there being a lot of clutter, and besides.

[Qabian]

Or use the wiki to take advantage of the template if so desired? And link the final product from the appropriate characters' bios here?

My character has historic rivals and allies. His family does not.

But just because your character's direct parents are nobodies (as were my character's) doesn't mean their entire family line is nobodies. It goes to "family's current status". Whether or not you want to extend that to an interesting/noteworthy family history or not into some form of notoriety is individualized, though. Obviously, not every character is going to want that or possibly even know that their great to the power of 24 grandfather was an infamous pirate.

Since it's clearly the kind of thing that is 'use it if you want it', it seems to make more sense to incorporate it into the bios we already have here, which are used and already understood, and maybe use the wiki for its extended space and simple linking ability?

[Leoren]

I think that part of what Leoren is desiring is some kind of tool that would allow people to form a preliminary opinion of someone's character based on things that would theoretically be common knowledge.

That's part of the objective. The rest is providing a means to potentially mesh existing RP ( seeing available points of connection / entry into other family lore ) and/or create opportunities for further role play by virtue of history playing into today. At the end of the day, I'd like for something like this to take us another step towards RP that will be fun and help immerse our characters in a little less static and isolated world.


...but there are definitely some particular family history related details that I have developed that could/should/might be common knowledge that I could work into a similar - if modified to suit my situation - template.

Honestly the template could vary wildly from person to person. I'm sure the one I've used as a trial may be too weighty for some or not comprehensive enough to others. The general idea is that the information be easily digestible to catch interest ( which can lead to further reading and brain storming for RP ) and still create enough depth to IC societies which have really felt quite shallow as a whole.

[Maithanet]

Or use the wiki to take advantage of the template if so desired? And link the final product from the appropriate characters' bios here?

My character has historic rivals and allies. His family does not.

But just because your character's direct parents are nobodies (as were my character's) doesn't mean their entire family line is nobodies. It goes to "family's current status". Whether or not you want to extend that to an interesting/noteworthy family history or not into some form of notoriety is individualized, though. Obviously, not every character is going to want that or possibly even know that their great to the power of 24 grandfather was an infamous pirate.

Since it's clearly the kind of thing that is 'use it if you want it', it seems to make more sense to incorporate it into the bios we already have here, and maybe use the wiki for its extended space and simple linking ability?

I really dont want to have to think about my story enough to work out what my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great Uncle did for Lordaeron four hundred years ago, personally. x.x

[Cyrass]

So... contrary to the initial post which stated this was to combat the elitism... you are really only directing this at people who's characters claim remarkable and/or noteworthy lineage?

Not exactly. Let's say I roll up a Tauren who is of a tribe of no massive importance, but still was wandering Kalimdor just like all the others were. Someone was bound to have heard of them, at least to some degree. I'm just kinda spitballing there, but it doesn't have to just be for the people with the oh-so-special lineages.

[Leoren]

So... contrary to the initial post which stated this was to combat the elitism... you are really only directing this at people who's characters claim remarkable and/or noteworthy lineage?

No. No. No.

/facepalm.

The noteworthy part meant which characters might be noteworthy avenues to create further RP around. Sorry if I didn't clarify.

By listing say Surianne, Leo's dad, I was highlighting a character who maybe could have interacted with someone else's relative in some way. By calling them 'noteworthy', that wasn't an IC elevation by any means. I meant more as in to say they were noteworthy characters in the sense that RP involving them could be pursued.

Another Edit:

This could be pursued with someone of an extremely humble origin, and still lead to meaningful interaction out there. While my take on the Evershine name may have been more historical, someone else's take on their family name may be more contemporary. Whatever you want the name to evoke in another character, whatever sense of history or meaning you'd think reasonable to accredit to it, you feel free to elaborate on it.

[Qabian]

I really dont want to have to think about my story enough to work out what my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great Uncle did for Lordaeron four hundred years ago, personally. x.x

Then don't! Some people might, though. Obviously marking down every name in a big biblical listing 'and then George VI killed some duke in Arathi in his sleep' would be ludicrous, but you could pick out maybe two or three individuals that did something interesting and toss them in a history, like Leoren hinted at, for the possibility of provoking current RP ideas with possible historical interactions.

But of course, only if that actually sounded like something you wanted to do. I don't particularly think it's an "appeals to everyone" idea, either.

[Lysimachus]

It remains that nobody uses the wiki.

Perhaps if it were more advertised?

[Maithanet]

Then don't! Some people might, though. Obviously marking down every name in a big biblical listing 'and then George VI killed some duke in Arathi in his sleep' would be ludicrous, but you could pick out maybe two or three individuals that did something interesting and toss them in a history, like Leoren hinted at, for the possibility of provoking current RP ideas with possible historical interactions.

But of course, only if that actually sounded like something you wanted to do. I don't particularly think it's an "appeals to everyone" idea, either.

My point is that I've never actually met anyone in RP who's ever even known what the characters family past their parents did. Everyone else has been generic and, for example, Saphiara said Malethia's family was a line of Fire Mages or something, well that's cool, but I doubt anyones bothered to work out of cousin Johnboy the Third saved the life of the King of Stormwind etc etc.

Personally, if anyone has thought about it that much, more power to them. I've just yet to meet them. Well, now I think about it, with the exception of Deebum, and even that was in written form.

[Qabian]

So make a concise listing of people who have bothered to make up Family Status (in interests of seeking out history-based or extended family oriented RP?) wiki entries, and construct it into some form of sticky here? = advertisement. Of course, the real problem with wikis is people have brilliant ideas! And then following through on the content doesn't happen so much.

[Vales]

And then are the Forsaken, the ultimate in cross-faction RP creation.

"Did you have a brother?" "I still do, the bastard's a caster of some sort, he's the reason..."
"You have a daughter? Really?" "Yes, I wonder what happened to her."

Because let's face it folks, while I copped out (sort of) with Vales and killed most of his original family off,...not everyone did. Some died a Looooong time ago, leaving behind a lineage of people bearing his blood perhaps. Or was young when he died and recent, and thus may have living relatives. Great stuff for some RP introductions.

Of course there is always..
"Hey, remember that bastard uncle bob? I saw him in Stormwind last time we pillaged. Got him good."

[Cyrass]

That's one of the things we hoped for, Vales.

[Rand_Shea]

Expecting everyone to know everyone else's character family histories is a bit of a high expectation. The only people who are really going to care are other people who like you, anyway, or if you achieve a level of popularity where it's somehow expected that everyone know your characters' life stories.

My hunter's family is extremely high ranking nobility... as in being advisors and personal confidants of the former Prince Kael'thas as well as a Courtisan in his elite inner circle. I took my inspiration for that from Roman elite 'noble' families and how they interacted with the rulers of that empire... and concerning my hunter's past, it was a very harsh upbringing despite having everything provided for an servants to do everything from sweeping the floors to even dressing them. It was a counter to the prevalent and common RP concept of "I'm a Blood Elf from a noble family, my life was wonderful, but out of the goodness of my heart I chose to be a hero/out of my selfish desires I decided to be a pain in the ass".

Children in Roman nobility were segregated and only allowed to interact with others from their social class and utterly forbidden to do anything that was not expected of them. Since magic users made up the vast majority of the elite in Sin'Dorei society, I made my hunter practically incapable of handling arcane magic, but having a sibling that was practically a prodigy at it, and thus was considered the black sheep. He was looked down on by his father as an embarrassment for it, treated as inferior, and hidden away. Because of that, abandoning his family name was easy for him and he prefers NOT to make a big show of it unlike the majority of people whose characters claim noble bloodline.

Also, being way upper elite, interactions with common people or even lower nobility were very infrequent and looked upon with disdain, so other than other nobles of close ranking, it wouldn't be a surprise for anyone to not know much about the noble family of 'Sunspiral'. My hunter talks about it occasionally, but doesn't like to... often only referring to it to roll his eyes at others' claims of superiority because their family walked around in gold embroidered silks and ate peacock tongues. A whole "It's really not THAT great unless you liked being sheltered and coddled" argument.

So... I leave it up for other people to decide if they care or not, because I'm frankly not interested in trying to force people to acknowledge something they don't care about.

[Ellsbeth]

Loving the "You might have known" thread. Already I can see a few people I can roleplay with that I have never interacted with before.

[Imara]

Loving the "You might have known" thread. Already I can see a few people I can roleplay with that I have never interacted with before.

I'm very pleased with it so far! :D

[Aphraelle]

Not exactly. Let's say I roll up a Tauren who is of a tribe of no massive importance, but still was wandering Kalimdor just like all the others were. Someone was bound to have heard of them, at least to some degree. I'm just kinda spitballing there, but it doesn't have to just be for the people with the oh-so-special lineages.

I actually thought of the Tauren at the same time as the Blood Elves. If they're anything like many indigenous societies, they have a very highly developed knowledge of who is related to whom, and how.

Halkomelem Salish even has a (non-compound, therefore basic to the language) noun ts'a' meaning "(genealogical) relationship" and a derived verb ts'a'um meaning "explain genealogical connection," e.g. sqiqul kws ts'a'ums 'eelhtun "They don't know how to explain how they're related."

And slightly nearer to home for the Anglos, my Gaelic-speaking friend from the island of Barra can recite her sloinneadh (genealogy/pedigree) back both sides for 10 generations or so, and says this is completely normal and expected, at least for people in her generation (she's in her 60s). It's necessary in a culture where there aren't a huge number of first names and often all or most people in a given area will have the same last name, e.g. Barra where at least 80% of the people have the last name MacNéill. (The band named The Barra MacNeils (http://www.barramacneils.com/) is kind of an inside joke, because that's about as specific as Los López de Los Angeles. :D) So there might be, say, two or three Alasdair MacNéills living in the same village, not necessarily related or at least not closely.

To eliminate confusion, almost everyone gets one or more nicknames, so you're known by either your nickname or your sloinneadh or both. Barra is so far the only place I've ever heard of where your nickname is part of your listing in the phone book.