Vehicle Combat

[Chikt]

So I was typing a big whiney post about how I'm feeling kinda useless at the moment as a PvP healer because of how quickly I die when focused on and how I have no real place in Vehicle combat unless I'm the one driving, and then something occured to me.

If Blizzard is going to make Dots and the like effect vehicles in the next patch, why not make heals effect them too? Then Healers would have an important job in Wintergrasp and Strand of the Ancients beyond "heal the people trying to blow up the tanks/trying to kill the people trying to blow up the tanks".

I don't know about my fellow healers but I feel pretty unnecessary in PvP right now.

[Skaadvik]

I've been feeling the same way. I was in SotA the other day, and someone started yelling at me calling me a noob (spiced with various expletives), and I responded with "well, I'm a healer," and then as I thought about it it occurred to me that I wasn't really sure whether I should be healing or trying to drive tanks.

On a mostly related note, I decided to just give up healing for the most part in SotA and drive tanks, because more than half the time the people I'm healing are too bad to be worth healing in the first place. It's like this in WSG and EotS most of the time, too, except there I can just heal the morons in mid and still make a killing on honor, ending up with as much as the horde players. I try to have it worked out to where I can farm WSG marks one a time for still 1k+ honor (for turnins), because WSG is painful alliance side. But that's neither here nor there.

[Advurb]

I dunno, think about it from a game balance standpoint. At least on our server, WG changes hands about 80% of the time it's attacked. Thus, do tanks really need more survivability? I'd say no. I understand your sentiment, though I think the changes are geared more to not gimping certain classes dps by restricting dots from vehicles (Warlocks, Death Knights specifically). I think Blizzard is trying to make the tanks a bit less survivable, which in our case is a good thing.

[Cristok]

Healing in pvp has been hard latley. The dark times MUST pass soon. Im sure Blizzard Gnomes are working this out..

What you mean WSG is bad alliance side? Horde seem to win 2% oftheonesitryihateitsomuchsomeonehelpme

[Skaadvik]

It seems to be exactly that way Alliance side... I dunno. Maybe it's timing.

[Moknim]

Healing in pvp has been hard latley. The dark times MUST pass soon. Im sure Blizzard Gnomes are working this out..

What you mean WSG is bad alliance side? Horde seem to win 2% oftheonesitryihateitsomuchsomeonehelpme

Yeah...I used to love WSG because its 10v10 and was the place to be if you were a resto druid. If you weren't an idiot, and both sides were doing their normal "ZOMG KILL EVERYONE AT MID" you could change the tide of the game.

Now...not so much.

[Fhenrir]

I don't particularly want vehicles to be healable. One obvious reason for this is the fact that you can heal from Demolisher side seats right now. So if vehicles were able to be healed, you would have invincible vehicles with healers in full PvE gear spamming heals on them (I know I would do this).

Regarding playing a healer in vehicle combat, if you're not driving them, healing people killing tanks is an incredibly vital and useful job (provided you have people to heal that are worth healing).


As far as vehicle combat goes in general, I'm actually fairly pleased with how WG turned out. It's different and mostly interesting, even though nobody really cares about defending it already. Strand... is by far the worst BG to come out yet. It's so bad.


Also, to put on my mod hat, I was expecting more a topic about vehicles and less one on healer QQ. Since I've seen this come up in almost every topic as of late, I've made an official healer QQ thread. Head here for healer QQ. (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=14940)

[Chikt]

I understand your sentiment, though I think the changes are geared more to not gimping certain classes dps by restricting dots from vehicles (Warlocks, Death Knights specifically). I think Blizzard is trying to make the tanks a bit less survivable, which in our case is a good thing.

This is my point though. Isn't the fact that vehicles not being healable gimping certain classes healing?

It just feels like - as far as Vehicle Combat goes - healers were kinda left out of the equation altogether. I mean, the only good thing for a healer to do when there's a tank around is to drive it. Because there's not much else they CAN do with it. DPS, at least, can blow the tank up when given the chance.


Also, to put on my mod hat, I was expecting more a topic about vehicles and less one on healer QQ. Since I've seen this come up in almost every topic as of late, I've made an official healer QQ thread. Head here for healer QQ. (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?t=14940)

The intention was to discuss vehicle combat as a whole but I was tired and didn't really expand upon that and just went with my thoughts about healers and tanks at the time. >_>

[Yatokth]

This is my point though. Isn't the fact that vehicles not being healable gimping certain classes healing?

It just feels like - as far as Vehicle Combat goes - healers were kinda left out of the equation altogether. I mean, the only good thing for a healer to do when there's a tank around is to drive it. Because there's not much else they CAN do with it. DPS, at least, can blow the tank up when given the chance.

Wrongsauce good sir, the best thing a healer can do is hop on the side and then HEAL all the ground troops while being utterly invulnerable until the opposing DPS takes down the tank. Incredibly powerful.

[Irontoe]

I think Engineers should be able to heal vehicles effectively against up to three players from non-pilot seat.

Or, God, SOMETHING to make up for the terrible goggles and non-BoP motorcycle.

[Kained]

buff me some more I'll kill em faster

[Swerto]

Does holy/nature magic mend metal now? If so repair my god damned armor plzkthnxbai

[Chikt]

Does holy/nature magic mend metal now? If so repair my god damned armor plzkthnxbai

LOL IT'S MAGIC LOL!

How do diseases effect vehicles? Because, you know, it makes no sense at all why a vehicle was diseased and couldn't be healed.

If vehicles can be diseased or cursed, does that not by extension mean they could be cured or decursed?

Would that not mean that they could be healed by holy/nature magic?

Right. STFU good sir. :D


Wrongsauce good sir, the best thing a healer can do is hop on the side and then HEAL all the ground troops while being utterly invulnerable until the opposing DPS takes down the tank. Incredibly powerful.

This is true for a defensive situation where there are going to be people surrounding the tanks, such as Wintergrasp. SotA you don't usually see people defending the vehicles so much as they are making a mad rush for the gates - the vehicles are only a means to an end there.

Wintergrasp it does make more sense and it is something I do use quite often whenever possible. I like to jump in the side seat of a vehicle so I can't get stopped on my healing. But line of sight and distance are still a problem. The issue with defensive healing from a vehicle is that your targets do not move with you. Defensive DPS from a vehicle, your targets DO move with you and are always in reach (unless you're melee, then WTF are you doing in the passenger seat? GTFO.) I usually only jump in a passenger seat when I'm fairly certain it's going to stay still. Which given how some people drive (like they have ADD) isn't often.

[Naheal]

I think Engineers should be able to heal vehicles effectively against up to three players from non-pilot seat.

Or, God, SOMETHING to make up for the terrible goggles and non-BoP motorcycle.

This. Someone please tell me why the machinists can make siege weapons (bombs) and various other machinery, but can't manage to repair it.

[Ryoku]

I don't know about my fellow healers but I feel pretty unnecessary in PvP right now.

As a healer, I have felt your pain in ages past (http://blog.pauked.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/Xoriginal-wow-login-screen.jpg), and will probably feel it again.

In my opinion you might have something here, Dio. If a vehicle can be biologically diseased, why then is it so hard to defy physics to allow them to be biologically healed? I mean..

Priest: "Well, there's nothing we can do.. He had devouring plague. It's just swimming through his system and tearing the poor guy up. There was nothing we could do.."

Guy: "But it's a tank.."

Priest: "Hey buddy, don't you tell me how to do my job! I've been healing for years and theres just nothing I can do for him!"

Guy: "But it's a tank! How does it even get diseased?!"

Priest: "Oh. We've been using a new type of biometal on our siege engines. Tough stuff but.. Diseases just eat it up."

Guy: "Just use cure disease!"

Priest: "I CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN'T!"


I think Engineers should be able to heal vehicles effectively against up to three players from non-pilot seat.

Or, God, SOMETHING to make up for the terrible goggles and non-BoP motorcycle.

Word.

[Fhenrir]

The intention was to discuss vehicle combat as a whole but I was tired and didn't really expand upon that and just went with my thoughts about healers and tanks at the time. >_>

For what it's worth, this wasn't directed at you. There were a few responses that had nothing to do with vehicles, so I was trying to keep it from going that way while giving unsatisfied healers a topic for it at the same time.


On topic:

As a healer I've actually had a LOT of success jumping into vehicle sideseats. If you have some coordination with people around you and get a couple people on the ground near a siege vehicle, those guys on foot have an invincible healer while they mop up anyone going for the vehicle itself. It's pretty deadly in SotA.

[Tsu]

it'd be cool if my diseases affected vehicles so i could do more than 2 damage to them

my death coils hit harder than my ss on them practically -_-

[Chikt]

it'd be cool if my diseases affected vehicles so i could do more than 2 damage to them

my death coils hit harder than my ss on them practically -_-

They're making diseases and dots effect vehicles in the next patch.

[Fynne]

Poisons, bleeds, so on and so forth...

Then there's the whole "I'm melee" thing that means all it takes is a single root or snare and I lose ~10+ seconds of DPS having to catch up to the vehicle again, often to just have it happen again by the invulnerable person in the sideseat. And that's not even taking into consideration the Wintergrasp lag nonsense where I can't even get next to something to melee it because it's in a new and exciting locale every 6 seconds.

Being able to heal those monstrosities would, in my opinion, be ridiculously overpowered.

Consider the whole homogenization of classes concern that's going on; the damage spells are being changed to affect vehicles for balance reasons despite the design intent to have a certain flavor for them by not being affected by diseases, bleeds, poisons, etc. Drawing a comparison to the reasoning behind not giving every class a stun, mortal strike, bubble, AoE heal, etc.-- because otherwise (and already, the concern has been voiced on the Blizzard forums) the classes all start to feel the same.

Would this let-healers-heal-vehicles logic necessarily extend beyond simply vehicles? As a rogue, for example, I can't take advantage of the new push/pull mechanics as I have no attack that can knock people from the stone on Naxxramas. Should the system be overhauled so that the class I've chosen to play can participate equally with this new mechanic? Or is there something to be said for unique abilities and favorable / unfavorable situations?

By giving every class the 'same' things to do to vehicles, I think they're going to lose a lot of their feel as well. 'Same' should not be confused, however, with 'equally useful' -- but I don't think that's been the case. Several people have pointed out that there are still useful things that healers can do vis a vis vehicles, or at the very least, demolishers.

[Chikt]

Perhaps the simplest solution is that you simply cannot heal a vehicle while you're riding inside it. No invulnerable healers inside a tank.

[Pyrisath]

They work like escort NPC's, from what I've seen. Vehicles, that is.

They can only take buff heals, like renew, Earth Shield, etc.

Proof? I don't have a SC cause it went away as soon as it went on, but I saw a shammy cast Earth Shield on a tank on its way to violet gate in SotA yesterday. So, my guess is my priest could heal, though not too quickly. Someone try this out for me? Cause for the most part, only PALADINS AND SHAMANS have been complaining, and shamans seem to only be able to heal it as resto.

Just thinking this might solve *some* of the fuss :p

[Chikt]

They can only take buff heals, like renew, Earth Shield, etc.

Yeah. I've buffed motorcycles with water walking and earth shield. Done it to my catapault too once or twice to play around.

[Resinous]

It seems to be exactly that way Alliance side... I dunno. Maybe it's timing.

Nah its hordes one good bg. I win probably 95% of wsg on shadowburn battlegroup. Its about all we have now a days.

[Korangar]

We still have Alterac but waiting for the Alliance to join it takes nearly an hour.