Death Knight PvP [Archive] - The Twisting Nether Gazette

Anthek

11-11-2008, 09:31 PM

Since it's a new class, some people might not be familiar with the abilities and strategies for a Death Knight in PvP, so I decided to offer a few tips. Feel free to add more as you see fit.

- Death Grip (pulls your target towards you) can also be used as an interrupt, as the target is being moved and unable to cast spells. It can't be used while in the air, however.

- Strangulate (silence) has a very long range, so it can be used well on a first approach, or when your target is trying to get away, like after a Blink.

- The attack of Plague Strike automatically removes any HoT effect (not dispell, so buffs like Lifebloom won't activate), and causes Blood Plague, which has a 50% chance for each tick to remove another afterwards.

- Anti-Magic Shell is more effective than just reducing spell damage, it also prevents any harmful magical effect from affecting the Death Knight, such as Polymorph or Fear. It doesn't prevent curses, poisons, or diseases, but still reduces the damage taken from those effects.

- Death Coil can't be used on yourself, but it can heal your ghoul, which is especially important for an Unholy spec.

- Lichborne makes you vulnerable to undead-specific abilities, like Exorcism and Shackle Undead, and specifically Turn Undead, which can still fear you despite Lichborne's immunity.

- None of the 51-point talented abilities are particularly useful for PvP, except for Hungering Cold, but Dancing Rune Weapon and Unholy Blight do cause a high amount of damage, DRW especially useful for burst, although it's hard to get the optimal runic power needed. Using Hungering Cold and Howling Blast in conjunction is ideal.

- Runic power is often best saved for Mind Freeze (unless you have points in Endless Winter), Anti-Magic Shell, or Icebound Fortitude. Use Death Coil or Frost Strike sparingly otherwise, or if the damage is more needed.

Ansha

11-11-2008, 09:36 PM

Great. I'm fighting Sith lords.

Advurb

11-11-2008, 09:40 PM

I'm really pissed that my Unholy DK does crap dps. I thought this class was supposed to be able to hold its own in damage.\

Sure utility is great, but I'd like to be useful in something other than 5s.

Fhenrir

11-11-2008, 09:42 PM

Kali and I are likely going to be playing a ret/DK team in Wrath, so I'll probably have some insight on how to play a competent one after watching him operate for awhile. Should be good fun. :)

Taknar

11-11-2008, 09:59 PM

Just a couple of notes:

- If you use Lichborne, then while you have it active you can heal yourself with Death Coil. This causes funny WTF moments if you run around a pillar and pop back out with 4k more health than you had before.

- Starting off with a death grip is fantastic for ganking, but horrible for any other PvP. Make sure you save it for when hunters, mages, and others are trying to get away. Also, the slap in the face that is using Death Grip after a hunter uses disengage can not be overlooked (and is friggin' hillarious).

- If you are PvPing at all, extending anti-magic shield to a 10 second duration via glyph is fantastic now that the extra 15 seconds isn't doubling the cooldown. For frost DKs, it's essentially a second lichborne with no negative side-effects.

I'll be keeping my eye on Kali for more PvP tips as I level with my own Death Knight.

Advurb

11-11-2008, 10:06 PM

- Starting off with a death grip is fantastic for ganking, but horrible for any other PvP. Make sure you save it for when hunters, mages, and others are trying to get away. Also, the slap in the face that is using Death Grip after a hunter uses disengage can not be overlooked (and is friggin' hillarious).

Death Grip behind pillar, root, other guy dies seems pretty useful to me

Taknar

11-11-2008, 10:10 PM

Death Grip behind pillar, root, other guy dies seems pretty useful to me

Useful but tricky I would imagine. I assume you mean to LOS the target from the healer, which would require you to be partially (meaning just barely) in LOS of the healer and completely in LOS of your target while still being around the pillar.

Or you could mean LOSing the healer away from the target, which now that I think about it would be better assuming you could co-ordinate a DG and root (or stun, or poly, or whatever).

Tillna

11-20-2008, 02:01 PM

So far we we seem to annhilate casters...so many silences...

Low armor classes suffer from blood and frost, and the higher ones get wrecked by holy due to scourge strike being shadow.

But Pallies...the stupid shield gets me every time.

Very fun PVP class.

Skafloc

11-20-2008, 03:19 PM

Also, the slap in the face that is using Death Grip after a hunter uses disengage can not be overlooked (and is friggin' hillarious).

This I would call the Yo-Yo tactic. ;) *Jumps away, and.... gets pulled back again.*

Tillna

11-21-2008, 01:34 AM

Tried Frost.

You WRECK single targets, pretty hard. And a good chunk of your abiltiies are frost, so you pierce armor. And you get a snare

Advurb

11-21-2008, 07:34 AM

I think unholy will be the dominant pvp tree. There's just so much utility compared to blood or frost.

Tillna

11-21-2008, 07:49 AM

Each tree bring somethings.

Frost has some huge crits...

And have their own version of cold blood. Go go 3k obliterate crits

Advurb

11-21-2008, 08:16 AM

You should be stacking crit anyway... Besides hungering cold I cant see any viability in frost.

Taknar

11-21-2008, 09:51 AM

You should be stacking crit anyway... Besides hungering cold I cant see any viability in frost.

Chillblains. Snare effing everything!

I personally see all of them as PvP viable, but I think Frost will be used more for solo PvP and Unholy for organized PvP. Arena comps permitting, of course.

opalexian

11-21-2008, 10:34 AM

This I would call the Yo-Yo tactic. ;) *Jumps away, and.... gets pulled back again.*

Once I thought I was out, but the pulled me back in. /sopranos ^_^

Meaya and I have been having a blast on our DKs, wrecking everything. I'd had 100 world kills at 62, but the DK pop thins out after Hellfire so there's only been about half as many people to kill since then. :( We started out with me being frost and him being holy or blood (whichever he was trying out that day) and I did ok damage, but maybe just because I didn't have all the skills, I didn't feel like I was contributing enough so I went unholy (while he was too) and we destroyed everything in Nagrand last night. The only real challenge we came up against was a pair of DKs (I think they were both blood, one might have been frost) but we still wrecked them (although they killed Meaya, his ghoulform got revenge.) They actually bothered to disease us and try to actually fight-I guess we just got the upper hand...or were better. >_>

We've not had much of any trouble taking anything else down, except a group at ring of blood with everyone 70+ (and a couple 80s), and a 70 pally when we were 63, and he had to blow LOH to manage to not die. Most pallies aren't willing to do that, so I don't think they're nearly as hard as people are making them out. Just wait for the bubble, and silences are your friend, especially, uh, the one that's not Strangulate >_> I'm still getting the names, bear with my shitty memory. ; b

There are a LOT of really bad DKs out there, so I don't think people will need to worry as much about them as they think. Meaya's going to try out frost tonight so we'll see if he can make anything more of it than I did. Nick, if your frost damage is so much higher than unholy you were doing something wrong, unless there's some uberspecial ability you get past 66 that I don't know about (which is guess is possible, but 'loltillnabad' is funnier. ; b )

Tillna

11-21-2008, 10:59 AM

For frost, Frost strike goes through armor, howling blast can be a free cast, and it does decent damage, obliterate hits hard with a two hander...

I think that DK's are gonna spice up arena teams

Lascivious

11-21-2008, 11:14 AM

anyone fallen off a cliff or bridge yet and used Death Grip to bring them with you?

Taknar

11-21-2008, 11:15 AM

For frost, Frost strike goes through armor,

Also can't be blocked, parried, or dodged. Once you are hit capped letting off a round of this thing will hurt very much.

Tillna

11-21-2008, 11:43 AM

not only that...

But Icy touch SLOWS casting speed.

Locks are delicious when they can't fear.

Go go Lichborne too

Taknar

11-21-2008, 11:55 AM

If Icy Touch is still slowing casting speed, that's something I should check out. Casting speed was removed from the tooltip awhile ago...

Grayslin

11-21-2008, 12:39 PM

anyone fallen off a cliff or bridge yet and used Death Grip to bring them with you?
Oh god, does that work? It might be worth the repair bills to screw with assholes...

Kaliera

11-21-2008, 12:52 PM

You cannot use Death Grip while moving, and thus you cannot use it to pull someone off a cliff. The closest thing to it would be facing a cliff's edge and pulling someone standing on an opposite ledge to you canyon-style, making their landing point nothingness.

Taknar

11-21-2008, 12:55 PM

Does that mean that you can't do revenge manouvers against Shaman and Druids that knock you off cliffs?

Naheal

11-21-2008, 02:42 PM

Kaliera

11-21-2008, 03:36 PM

Correction: You can use Death Grip while moving. However, you cannot use Death Grip while in the air.

This. My mistake. There was a brief period in the beta where Death Grip required you to be completely stationary, and I've always just used the ability with that in mind given my conditioning using it as such. The point stands that you cannot DG people off cliffs.

Ansha

11-21-2008, 03:49 PM

You can, however, yank people back up when they try to jump off of cliffs to escape you. As a guildmate did a few days ago.

Gorymoru

11-23-2008, 07:10 PM

Gory has gone Unholy on his DK since 55. He is in lurves with Unholy.

Enough 3rd person. Seriously though, I can see how Blood might be nice for long fights with a low damage/self-healing class...but I don't see them winning against Unholy, unless the Unholy person is fail. It's possible, mind you. And no one challenge me, kay? I play on a laptop with red latency at all times. So my progression to better PvP is seriously hindered.

I do wish they'd make obliterate a knockback or something...give us Unholy guys a reason to actually USE it. Cause Scourge Strike>>>>> Obliterate. 18k crits with Scourge at 65...maybe 16k tops with Obliterate. STUPID!!!

Advurb

11-23-2008, 07:23 PM

18k crits? Am I missing something here?

Yatokth

11-23-2008, 07:45 PM

18k crits? Am I missing something here?

You're not a half-dragon.

(couldn't resist)

Advurb

11-23-2008, 09:05 PM

You're not a half-dragon.

(couldn't resist)

ZING!

Gorymoru

11-23-2008, 09:07 PM

Cute Yat. No but I meant 1.8k, or 1800. Accidentally added an extra 0 in mah mind.

Taknar

11-23-2008, 10:06 PM

Scourge Strike is supposed to completely replace Obliterate, in the same way that Heart Strike completely replaces Blood Strike. If you are unholy, just take Obliterate off your bar. This toy is not for you.

I'll also point out that my Oblit crits are 1.8k, because of the talent modifier that adds 45% crit bonus. And I'd really, REALLY, caution discarding Blood as a low DPS spec. The good ones give me a run for their money. Unholy DKs are the bacon that go with my ghoul eggs in the morning ;D

Gorymoru

11-23-2008, 10:22 PM

Whoa...I never said blood was slow DPS. I said they'd be good against low damage/self healing classes, because they have good burst, and hella crazy survivability.

Taknar

11-23-2008, 10:44 PM

Whoa...I never said blood was slow DPS. I said they'd be good against low damage/self healing classes, because they have good burst, and hella crazy survivability.

I misread it. My bad! xD

You want burst though, you come hang out in Frost town. So tasty!

Yatokth

11-23-2008, 11:12 PM

Frost ftw.

I need to level so I get the rest of my skills though. XD

Deathchill'd Howling Blasts are win. Especially after strangulates. :D

Gorymoru

11-24-2008, 08:48 AM

<-- Die hard Warlock...I is not able to live without mah DoTs and perma pet....the plate is just adding claws to the fangs. Unholy is just comfortable for me =P

nandien

11-24-2008, 10:25 AM

Frost ftw.

I need to level so I get the rest of my skills though. XD

Deathchill'd Howling Blasts are win. Especially after strangulates. :D

Wait till you get oblit. Deathchilled obliterates are better... (single target at least).

Taknar

11-24-2008, 10:39 AM

Wait till you get oblit. Deathchilled obliterates are better... (single target at least).

Not as you're leveling. Howling Blast scales ridiculously well at low levels. I get 2k Howling Blast crits without trying, but my highest Oblit crit is 1.8k. This is before any procs from my rune weapon. ;D

Naheal

11-24-2008, 01:49 PM

Not as you're leveling. Howling Blast scales ridiculously well at low levels. I get 2k Howling Blast crits without trying, but my highest Oblit crit is 1.8k. This is before any procs from my rune weapon. ;D

I'm frost on my DK right now and I don't even use Oblit. I tend to stick more with HB and Death Strike (I got the glyph and 3/3 Rune Power Mastery.).

nandien

11-24-2008, 02:37 PM

I'm frost on my DK right now and I don't even use Oblit. I tend to stick more with HB and Death Strike (I got the glyph and 3/3 Rune Power Mastery.).

Hmm, while just grinding or whatever I try to do the dps cycles. Like, for the first mob PS IC BT BT OB. Of course, HB if it's free. At that point the mob's usually dead and I have a bunch or runic power, so the next mob I'll generally PS IC FS, etc. At this point you have 2 death runes instead of blood runes so PS IC OB OB on the next mob. That'll usually kill them as well. The thing I like about obliterate is it has ~27% +crit just from talents. While 2k HB crits are nice, I find the 1.5k - 1.6k obliterate crits more useful. Of course, pestilence + deathchilled howling blast = big numbers :)

Ontopic: Can deathknights still use all of there abilities while silenced? Is it worth using strangulate while fighting another deathknight?

Edit: Obliterate glyph is nice too.

Yatokth

11-24-2008, 02:45 PM

Ontopic: Can deathknights still use all of there abilities while silenced? Is it worth using strangulate while fighting another deathknight?

Edit: Obliterate glyph is nice too.

They can only use melee abilities, strangulate > kite and HB/IT is a great finisher tactic when fighting other DKs.

Is the oblit glyph worth it? Does it decrease or increase damage?

Taknar

11-24-2008, 02:50 PM

Averilyna

11-24-2008, 03:54 PM

They can only use melee abilities, strangulate > kite and HB/IT is a great finisher tactic when fighting other DKs.

Is the oblit glyph worth it? Does it decrease or increase damage?

And that's when I ghoul stun you and drop a Scourge Strike in your face. ;-P

But yeah, Unholy has been really fun. Only had much experience fighting other DKs, and I really ant Anti-Magic Shell, but like someone else mentioned earlier, I started playing the game as a Warlock. Unholy is really fun for me.

Zya

11-24-2008, 04:11 PM

TRICK:

This Requires at least 1 Death Knight.

Death Knights have this skill called Death Grip.

"Harness the unholy energy that surrounds and binds all matter, drawing the target toward the death knight and forcing the enemy to attack the death knight for 3 sec. Instant cast. 30 yard range. 35 sec cooldown. Costs no power. "

This is an AWESOME skill. To pull a higher level horder towards you and FORCE them into combat seems like something you want to avoid... but bear with me.

Location is EVERYTHING in this. Me and another deathknight did this and this is SO fun! Also be aware that this can be done to you as well when frolicking near an opposing faction town.

Have a deathknight sitting just inside an allied town. The second Death knight stands just inside the previous DK's Death Grip range. When an enemy runs by... stay where you are. You do not want to move out of range of your partner's death grip range. If the enemy comes within your range, Cast Death Grip on him/her.

Your opponant is now thinking you are a noob idiot, and will more than likely be more than happy to attack you. Then he/she gets a fun little surprise.

Your partner casts Death grip on him, and PULLS him inside the allied town, thereby activating all the gaurds (Obcviously pick a town with a lot of guards). They attack him/her, he/she runs, you slow him with frost shackles... he/she dies... you and your partner in crime have a good laugh... +1 for your faction. If they try to rez, you can simply pull back in again to kill them again. This forces him/her to take the Rez sickness or log... putting them out of commission for 10+ mins.

*Ways to get out of this that many people don't realize*

-Pally: can use that "immune" thingy to stop them.
-Other DKs: select the DK inside the enemy outpost and pull him to you. This stops him from doing the same to you.
-Rogue: Vanish
-Hunter: Disengage, or feint death (I think might work, I dunno).

I have not played a Druid, Shaman or Warrior long enough to know if they can get out of this.... but usually if a team of two DKs are good, you will be INSIDE the enemy fortress with elite mobs on you so fast you will hardly have time to react.

This is a nasty trick, but because level 70+ individuals are ganking Death knights left and right, its time for some payback. I have been in a line of 5 DKs in Hellfire pulling 70+ horde (on the PvP server I play Alliance on) into the middle of town. They don't EVER make it out alive.

I call it "DK Fishing"

Yatokth

11-24-2008, 05:40 PM

Really easy way to get out of that as a warrior.

Bladestorm and kill the DKs, then run. If you die, just rez and gtfo.

Zya

11-24-2008, 05:53 PM

Really easy way to get out of that as a warrior.

Bladestorm and kill the DKs, then run. If you die, just rez and gtfo.

I pulled a level 78 warrior into Hellfire and he had just enough time to die at the gate. :cool:

May seem easy, but I have been pulled by this skill. It can be disorienting. You can kill the DK that pulled you, but you will still be pulled by the DK inside the town/outpost/city, cause he is about 30 yards away from you...

Yatokth

11-24-2008, 06:01 PM

I pulled a level 78 warrior into Hellfire and he had just enough time to die at the gate. :cool:

May seem easy, but I have been pulled by this skill. It can be disorienting. You can kill the DK that pulled you, but you will still be pulled by the DK inside the town/outpost/city, cause he is about 30 yards away from you...

I've also been pulled by it. It's disorienting if you're not ready for it.

Depending on their level, you may or may not kill them.

But as an avid PvPer, I'm always ready for it. ;)

Catilyn

11-24-2008, 09:14 PM

I recently found out from random experimentation, that Silencing the opponent prevents them from mounting, in other words,
Strangulate (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47476); and the ability to disable mounting from 30yds away is quite welcome in my book. (Death Grip (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49576) can then be saved in case they try to escape)

Come to think of it, [Glyph of Strangulate] (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43552) increses it's range to a total of 50yds... imagine the possibilities! >=D

Yatokth

11-24-2008, 09:19 PM

I recently found out from random experimentation, that Silencing the opponent prevents them from mounting, in other words, Strangulate.

Glyph of Strangulate increses it's range to a total of 50yds... imagine the possibilities! >=D

Whoa serious?

That's pretty sweet.

I'd been considering glyph of strangulate for arena shenanigans, though I often use strangulate as a finisher tactic so that they can't iceblock/bubble/killmefirst.

Catilyn

11-24-2008, 10:53 PM

I imagine the Strangulate>Mount strategy would be most usefull in a World PvP situation.

Anthek

11-24-2008, 11:41 PM

It's actually because it puts the target into combat.

Advurb

11-25-2008, 12:10 AM

The Silence would only affect DK, Paladin and Warlock mounts, the others are items and not affected by Silence.

Catilyn

11-25-2008, 12:15 AM

Actually no, since Mounts are now counted as a spell because of the new Mounts/Companions tab, it still affects the aformentioned classes.
Tested it myself. This also explains why the button to call them forth says "Summon" on the Mounts/Companions tab.

Advurb

11-30-2008, 03:58 PM

I played some skirmishes with Viiper and damn were they fun. It seems like every spell I cast is clutch. This is my class.

Gorymoru

12-01-2008, 03:53 AM

No like srsly...DK PvP is easy.

My only problem is when I come up against another Unholy DK. With my latency, this is usually the scenario.

I win...but with less than 25% health. Try to kite them around for the ghoul form duration...ALMOST succeed...but lag catches up to me, and I get ghoul formed as they actually die. I get the honor...but no one really wins.../cry

Zya

12-01-2008, 11:25 AM

I love Ghoul Form. Most people think "Cool... I won!" Until they see me rez and come after them. They think they can run.... until I leap on them and finish them off before I die.

Kinda like a slap in the face.... "You can't finish me off? Too bad so sad... you're dead"

Also a side note with Ghoul form. Camping instances you are unstoppable.

Why?

Because in Ghoul form you can run to the portal, and when you pop out on the other side, you are alive and in your original form... WITH FULL HEALTH. THen you port back out of the instance ready to fight again. I am sure this will be nerfed, but until then, DKs camping instance portals= fun. Sometimes I camp and a higher level pops out. I get him to 1/2 health, and he kills me. I go through portal, heal/retrieve my body instantly, and portal back out... that same guy still has 1/2 HP so I can finish him off.

It really needs to be nerfed..... I just tell you guys this so you are aware of it happening.

Yatokth

12-01-2008, 11:54 AM

Raziel

12-01-2008, 01:04 PM

Because in Ghoul form you can run to the portal, and when you pop out on the other side, you are alive and in your original form... WITH FULL HEALTH. THen you port back out of the instance ready to fight again. I am sure this will be nerfed, but until then, DKs camping instance portals= fun. Sometimes I camp and a higher level pops out. I get him to 1/2 health, and he kills me. I go through portal, heal/retrieve my body instantly, and portal back out... that same guy still has 1/2 HP so I can finish him off..

That's definitely a bug and should be reported and given feedback so it can be fixed. You shouldn't exploit it.

Zya

12-01-2008, 02:31 PM

That's definitely a bug and should be reported and given feedback so it can be fixed. You shouldn't exploit it.

I have reported it and Blizzard's response was generic. I don't do it anymore, once they informed me it was going to be fixed "at the next update". I am bringing it to other people's attention so they are aware of it so they it doesn't happen to them.

And the comment about it being fun was sarcastic... sorry if that wasn't clear.

Advurb

12-01-2008, 04:05 PM

That's definitely a bug and should be reported and given feedback so it can be fixed. You shouldn't exploit it.

QQ imo

Shin

12-04-2008, 04:39 PM

Dunno if anyones mentioned it yet but Death Grip can be used on people 'flying' as well to drag them down to your level. If you have the Glyph'd version it can stun'em and dismount them too :)

Yatokth

12-04-2008, 04:40 PM

Zya

12-04-2008, 05:06 PM

Dunno if anyones mentioned it yet but Death Grip can be used on people 'flying' as well to drag them down to your level. If you have the Glyph'd version it can stun'em and dismount them too :)

I have actually tried this. It is glitched. It doesn't work well AT all, plus you have to be at the same "level" as you. I tried pulling Alliance into the Bay of Booty Bay (using frost step to walk on water), and I could not pull peopl eoff the docks because they were not on the same level as me.

I hope they change that, but I do not think they will.

Advurb

12-04-2008, 09:15 PM

I've pulled things up/down. I dunno what you're talking about.

Shin

12-05-2008, 09:26 AM

Yeah you must of had line of sight issues. I've been able to drag people down from their epic flyers when they try to CC me and run before. Heck I've even had a funny HK when a Druid rooted me, ran away to a cliff and jumped off trying to get outta combat, I run to the edge and drag him back just as he goes bird, then he shifts out as he's stunned trying to get outta CC and falls to his death :)

Gorymoru

12-05-2008, 10:05 AM

Yeah, I've used it to pull people up out holes or onto cliffs when I'm exploitin around. Really helpful, mind you.

PvP wise, I don't have the latency to purposefully take advantage of any of that, sadly. Anything I might accomplish out of the ordinary with Death Grip will be entirely accidental.

Tillna

12-05-2008, 12:27 PM

So...

When will we see good DK pvp specs?

Advurb

12-05-2008, 12:36 PM

21/0/50 is the best pvp build. Maximizes utility for arena. I'd post more but I'm on my cell phone.

Kaliera

12-05-2008, 02:25 PM

So...

When will we see good DK pvp specs?

21/0/50 is the best pvp build. Maximizes utility for arena. I'd post more but I'm on my cell phone.

That's the best PvP spec you're going to get. Deep frost with a frost mage in twos is also viable, but only for that particular setup. U/B hybrid or bust.

Shin

12-05-2008, 02:42 PM

That's the best PvP spec you're going to get. Deep frost with a frost mage in twos is also viable, but only for that particular setup. U/B hybrid or bust.

Thats the best 'Solo' spec for a 1v1 encounter but it limits your utility in most group and open pvp situations. I've prefered a 18/5/48 build for the last 100k honor I've ground out. An upgraded self-heal with a faster recovery from slowing effects makes you more useful in the more drawn out fights.

Though to be fair I've been just about every hybrid build over the last three weeks trying to find a less utility dependant build under the Blood/Frost trees but at the yet I've had limited sucess

Tillna

12-05-2008, 02:51 PM

I'm going into threes with an arms warrior and a Frost mage.

I want to get the Snare with icy touch among other things...I just nee dhelp on what to drop and keep..o.0

Tillna

12-05-2008, 03:48 PM

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfmMqc00oZZfMGhzfkMeqofou

this 21/0/50 right?

Kaliera

12-05-2008, 06:34 PM

Thats the best 'Solo' spec for a 1v1 encounter but it limits your utility in most group and open pvp situations. I've prefered a 18/5/48 build for the last 100k honor I've ground out. An upgraded self-heal with a faster recovery from slowing effects makes you more useful in the more drawn out fights.

Though to be fair I've been just about every hybrid build over the last three weeks trying to find a less utility dependant build under the Blood/Frost trees but at the yet I've had limited sucess

It's an arena build, which is centered around group play. I fail to see how it "limits your utility", since the entire spec revolves around group utility. Rune Tap is a full party heal on a 30 second cooldown, MoB is a life saver when a rogue is attacking your healer, Virulence makes dispelling insanely difficult, Unholy Aura increases your group's run speed by 15%, and with all this, you still get Bone Shield for self-turtling purposes. Where is the lowered group utility again?

Zephrythos

12-05-2008, 08:10 PM

It's an arena build, which is centered around group play. I fail to see how it "limits your utility", since the entire spec revolves around group utility. Rune Tap is a full party heal on a 30 second cooldown, MoB is a life saver when a rogue is attacking your healer, Virulence makes dispelling insanely difficult, Unholy Aura increases your group's run speed by 15%, and with all this, you still get Bone Shield for self-turtling purposes. Where is the lowered group utility again?

Bingo. Only other spec I can see being anywhere close is the Unholy/Frost build... 0/18/53 or something? Saying 21/0/50 doesn't have utility, though, is just plain incorrect.

Advurb

12-06-2008, 12:18 AM

Bingo. Only other spec I can see being anywhere close is the Unholy/Frost build... 0/18/53 or something? Saying 21/0/50 doesn't have utility, though, is just plain incorrect.

Oops, forgot to log off mage account, that quote is me.

Looks like a lot of people are making the mistake in thinking that DKs are supposed to be damage-dealers in arena, when this just isn't true. Spells like Death Grip, Chains of Ice, Strangulate, Anti-Magic Shell/Zone, etc can be used to get your teammates out of trouble. The DK's main role in arena is controlling the fight and giving him and his team more freedom to get what they need to done. This is true for all of the viable comps I've heard of, unless you're playing 2s with a healer.

Kaliera

12-06-2008, 03:32 AM

This is true for all of the viable comps I've heard of, unless you're playing 2s with a healer.

Kind of a moot point though, considering how much more viable a rogue/warrior/hunter would be in the healer/X position than the DK. Running DK/Healer is a lot like running Enhancement/Healer. Both work to an extent, but the healer must really love excessively longer matches for no real benefit. Lack of MS/drain for the loss.

Naheal

12-06-2008, 01:33 PM

A Frost/blood build would probably work a bit better for 2s like that.

Okhu

12-06-2008, 04:49 PM

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2300321503100010000000000000000000000 000000000000000000230032035023115000150203103140&glyph=000000000000#

Seemed like a good idea at the time.

Shadowspeak

12-06-2008, 05:03 PM

Just a couple of notes:

- If you use Lichborne, then while you have it active you can heal yourself with Death Coil.

Thank you, I did not know.

nandien

12-07-2008, 03:06 AM

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfmMqc00oZZfMGhzfkMeqofou

this 21/0/50 right?

As a tweak, you probably want a 5th point in bladed armor rather than 2 hand spec. Also Unholy Aura, although I'm not quite sure what you'd drop to get it, probably desecration. I'd imagine impurity is more damage than desecration, but the slow might be more useful.

Zephrythos

12-07-2008, 06:21 PM

That's the correct spec.

Desecration is vital for the slow effect. Unholy Aura isn't worth dropping anything in there. Two-handed Spec is also vital and better than Bladed Armor.

Gorymoru

12-07-2008, 09:48 PM

Troll says rawr.

Subzeero

12-08-2008, 08:30 PM

OK so this is an agreed good PVP spec? Advurb this you? Dont want to reinvent the wheel if it rolls good.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfmMqc00oZZfMGhzfkMeqofou

Advurb

12-08-2008, 08:47 PM

OK so this is an agreed good PVP spec? Advurb this you? Dont want to reinvent the wheel if it rolls good.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfmMqc00oZZfMGhzfkMeqofou

That's pretty much the agreed optimal spec according to Arena Junkies, and I don't know a source more reliable than that.

Thelsuo

12-16-2008, 07:25 AM

From my experiences, it seems as unholy you need to bounce a bit more mitigation. I've been mixxing my tanking gear with dps gear, in a lot of fights it's about survivability.

In my current set of "PVP" gear, i'm at around 26k HP and 26k armor. So far i've yet to lose a fight, at least while farming. Even took out an epic geared prot pally yesterday who burned bubble and LOH during the fight with me at 60% HP at the end.

Until you really stack armor, HP, and more AP to kill stuff this might be a good idea for a lot of DKs.

Also, I pvp in frost prescence, 60% more armor, 10% more HP and 5% spell reduction.

With the new patch that's 80% Armor, 10% HP and 15% magic damage reduction.

So for now outlasting seems better tha bursting down.. At least for me as a 5/5/5 spec DK.

-Thel

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Thelsuo
(Not in frost presence, that's why the armor, hp seem low.)

Advurb

12-17-2008, 10:09 AM

DKs are a strong dueling class due to all of the survivability of frost presence and your healing utility. Thankfully, the game is not tailored to duels. In PvP that matters (arena) you'd be much better off in resil gear and unholy presence, unless the situation arises where you need more survivability. I don't think many teams will focus DKs for that reason though.

You'd also be better off with 21/0/50, the best PvP spec for a death knight (arguably). Also, stacking str is better than AP. You should prioritize Str, then crit, then anything else when choosing temporary non-arena(resil) set gear or enchants/gems.