[Discussion/Feedback] Language

[Catalinetta]

Alright, so I've heard several people mention how they can't get into RP with Cat because of the way she talks. Now, this only came from two people, and it happened last night. So far nobody else has really had any issue, but there's plenty of people who have never RPed with Cat before, and I'd like to hear your opinions.

Cat has recieved lots of scorn from people for her language use. People scowl, grit their teeth, turn their nose, call her low-class beer-swilling wench.. that sort of thing. I'm cool with that! However, does anyone have an issue with how she talks IC?

Cat uses words like "dude" "chick" and every curse word imaginable. Last night I decided to ditch the word "chick" and replace it with "bitches" because "bitch" is a word RPers use pretty typically. Do you guys consider this an acceptable switch?

[Ellsbeth]

To answer your question: no. Keep your character as you want to play her. If people won't RP with her because of her language, then they're not really worth RPing with now are they?

It's not that you have grammar issues or spelling issues. Or you're using 'ur a fag' every other sentence. It's a character trait.

If you really think you need to RP with the people who are snubbing you, then by all means change it. But some of the most interesting and fun characters I RPed with in this game have speech differences (Gorvena, Skash, Kazthul, Chaindog, Chingasso are just a few examples -- two from the same player even!).

Being a rough, swill-voiced wench it's different and appreciated.

[Yatokth]

To answer your question: no. Keep your character as you want to play her. If people won't RP with her because of her language, then they're not really worth RPing with now are they?

It's not that you have grammar issues or spelling issues. Or you're using 'ur a fag' every other sentence. It's a character trait.

If you really think you need to RP with the people who are snubbing you, then by all means change it. But some of the most interesting and fun characters I RPed with in this game have speech differences (Gorvena, Skash, Kazthul, Chaindog, Chingasso are just a few examples -- two from the same player even!).

Being a rough, swill-voiced wench it's different and appreciated.

This.

Use "chick" and "dude" and whatever words you want - Warcraft isn't just high fantasy, there's alot of contemporary language in it - hell, call something "far out" in RP if you want.

Your character, play her how you want her to be played.

[Malethia]

Don't forget I had reported you the first time I saw you RP in public, before I knew it was you.

I kind of frown on public profanity, simply because you never know who's on the other end of the screen. That hasn't stopped me from RP'ing with you, obviously (now that I know). You just got the friendly lecture from Malethia that didn't work.

[Agnarr]

I don't care, but if you said "dude somethin somethin" to Agnarr he'd probably be "what's a dude?"

[Sifar]

Alright, so I've heard several people mention how they can't get into RP with Cat because of the way she talks.

Perhaps more than seeing this as "can't get into RP with Cat," I would see it as "my character doesn't like Cat's crass nature." Thus, it isn't a character I'd choose to interact with, or make it as brief as possible.


Cat uses words like "dude" "chick" and every curse word imaginable. Last night I decided to ditch the word "chick" and replace it with "bitches" because "bitch" is a word RPers use pretty typically. Do you guys consider this an acceptable switch?

I wouldn't change it for someone else. Who's to say where you picked up your idioms or speech patterns? Playing a Dwarf, I've been asked many times to tone it down or asked why I use my own forms for her accent. My character, my way. It's the variety that makes it interesting.

[Vilmah]

Perhaps more than seeing this as "can't get into RP with Cat," I would see it as "my character doesn't like Cat's crass nature." Thus, it isn't a character I'd choose to interact with, or make it as brief as possible.

Oh no, I was told they couldn't stay in character because of the way she talks. For the people who won't interract with her because their character hates low-brow types, that's coo. X3

[Tillna]

I was so offended, I had to make a million and a half blog posts.

If nothign else, his tears were orgasmic.

Personally, it depend son the character. If ker started doing it, w ewould all call him crazy.

zinny has no accent because he was not raised around trolls, and his tusks are not large enough to impeed his speech.

More importantly, RPING IS FUN. NOW HAS IT.

Zinny so has secret Cat crush

[Fafnir]

I was there. I don't care about accents. Faf is a dealer of information, among other things, so he's carefully worked his own accent to be more..."common" I suppose. Less brutish, more "inviting."

And from what I understand, Cat is a personification of yourself? While I don't think I'd enjoy RP'ing myself, more power to you if you enjoy it. I'll never back down from a storyline because of foul language or modern speak, though I will refrain from it myself.

I prefer substituting other words for curses. Feck, shades (What in the shades is going on?. I think Terry Brooks did it, and I liked it), and so on.

So yeah, I didn't care about the no accent thing, though I'm hestitant to go in there now, again, because of all the OOC. That, and the fighting. These are the things that ruined it in the first place (not necessarily from you, but in general). Just sayin'.

[Abric]

It offends me because you are bad at it.

Ever think that you could not tone it down, but start moving it into the realm of Azeroth? While most sentence enhancers are not modern, they are stemmed from things that happened in reality. So, what's the matter with trying to think up some stuff in Azeroth?

So, Diomades is an asshole. We don't have to call him an asshole, we could just call him cow crotch - or the puckered back end of a gnoll. Sure, it's not as easy as saying asshole; but it does give a good visual and insult!

Hey, you know that guy Abric? He's an asshole too! Though, maybe we can say he's got a staff shoved so far up his ass, he walks like a Scourge!

You hear that stuff that Malethia was doing at the Silvermoon bank? Sounded like she was getting the brains fucked out of her. Or, better yet - Malethia was at the bank, sounding like she was trying too hard to rub two sticks together.

Is it crude? Eh... depending on how creative you want to get, but it does add a bit of flair to the imagination. If folks got a problem with it? Hey, you didn't just call Vilmah a fucking bitch - you called her a dog looking for a pole to scratch the itch between her legs.

FORESOOTH!

[Tillna]

You hear that stuff that Malethia was doing at the Silvermoon bank? Sounded like she was getting the brains fucked out of her. Or, better yet - Malethia was at the bank, sounding like she was trying too hard to rub two sticks together.


This.

that is all

[Raziel]

I've been given two e-mails due to profanity
and three from harrassment

Was I in character? yes.
Was it wrong of me to say the things I did? yes, according to the EULA and TOS.

A Profanity Filter is not an excuse. Developers have said this.

[Vilmah]

It offends me because you are bad at it.

Ever think that you could not tone it down, but start moving it into the realm of Azeroth? While most sentence enhancers are not modern, they are stemmed from things that happened in reality. So, what's the matter with trying to think up some stuff in Azeroth?

But I use those kind of insults too! I just use them in conjunction with the modern terms. Like, "fuckin' goddamn murloc breath", or, "assfaced centaur dicked motherfucker".

[Pearlle]

i haven't really seen cat rp. but i think what you pointed out, vilmah, is more appropriate to what abric was saying. it feels more game based to add the contemporary cusses to words like centaur and such. it's not about being based in azeroth per se, but about being based in this game. like...well how someone else said, some of us might spend a lot of time looking and squinting in character and wondering ...'what's a dude?'

now for ppl who avoid the cat character because of this, well. i guess it's like that convo between whether or not you /ignore a roleplayer. i wouldn't. and like someone else suggested, don't try and impress ppl who don't want to try and 'get' what you're doing. personally? i don't care how someone talks, out of character. i'm just glad ppl rp! if pearlle walked up and asked where so and so was, and you said, 'yo bitch, i had nuff o' dat shit about dat dude...' i'd have to make her walk away without saying a word and just blinking. a lot.

heh so um, where do we sign up to watch malethia ...rub two sticks together, as it were *wiggles eyebrows* cuz if that's going to start becoming public entertainment, i'm down!

[Ke'juarez]

I've been given two e-mails due to profanity
and three from harrassment

Was I in character? yes.
Was it wrong of me to say the things I did? yes, according to the EULA and TOS.

A Profanity Filter is not an excuse. Developers have said this.

If the profanity filter doesn't gives us some right to exercise every word in the english language, then it is a waste of coding time and should be removed.
The fact of the matter is, people swear. I can be both eloquent and swear like a sailor, depending on what point I'm trying to make. My character reflects this as well, although I try to tone down both extremes (trolls aren't the most eloquent of denizens). Regardless of whether 'four letter' words are taboo, they have as much value as any other word.
And no, I don't think that children should be exposed to swearing when they're young. However, in an online environment, with all its anonymity, coupled with connecting people of all ages, races, backgrounds, etc., you are beyond naive to expect people to not use swear words. Besides, a lot of the biggest swear-word users are 12 year olds who think the words are 'teh awesome' and the fast track to being cool. Kinda like the Caps Lock idiots.
Because of that, parents are justly concerned, and that's why the language filter was made. That is its primary use, to protect younger or more straight-laced players. If the dev's say that you can still be punished for swearing, then they are implicitly admitting that the language filter is impotent. So why waste the data on keeping it in the game?
As far as I'm concerned, so long as it is not a racial slur, who gives a shit?

[Muatah]

But I use those kind of insults too! I just use them in conjunction with the modern terms. Like, "fuckin' goddamn .......", or, "assfaced ......... dicked motherfucker".

Hate to say it, Vilmah, but I see these words and they instantly pull me out-of-game. They are modern swear words and slang.

I don't "mind" them because they are crude. I do "mind" them a little bit because they jolt me right back into 21st century America.

[Malebrignon]

"Bitches" is one that really gets me. Especially in cities. If I can't turn around and immediately beat you down for offending me, I almost feel like it's god-moding to use it. It's certainly taking advantage of the back-assward game mechanics Blizzard has implemented in cities.

I agree with what both Muatah and Abric have said above 100%. However, I'd also like to point out that if death were any kind of actual threat in the game, you'd never be able to get away with this kind of character at all.

Cat walks into bar full of Grim. " 'Sup, Bitches!"
Bar full of Grim wordlessly reduces Cat to a pile of goo on the floor.

Heh. I don't deal well with characters, or real people for that matter, built around disrespecting everyone around them. Someone that refers to any particular group of people as "bitches" falls into this category.

I have no problem with "dude" or "chick", though I'd likely not know what you meant by "dude" and would be wondering why you referred to someone as a baby bird unless, of course, they were petite and helpless.

As a general rule, I avoid people who fill their RP with profanity. I kicked more than one person out of <Decimate> for spamming profanity across my guild chat, but it was clearly defined in my rules that I wouldn't tolerate it. As I've said elsewhere, I'm not offended by profanity; I'm offended by the lack of creativity it shows. I hold roleplayers to a higher standard. I think RPers should follow the Abric example and be able to come up with more creative and Azeroth-appropriate cursing. Creating a list of Azerothian curses might actually be a fun TNG project.....

[Raziel]

Because of that, parents are justly concerned, and that's why the language filter was made. That is its primary use, to protect younger or more straight-laced players. If the dev's say that you can still be punished for swearing, then they are implicitly admitting that the language filter is impotent. So why waste the data on keeping it in the game?
As far as I'm concerned, so long as it is not a racial slur, who gives a shit?

Because there's a line between casual profanity and outright harrassment that people tend not to see when they cross it.

[LorFedorovic]

If the profanity filter doesn't gives us some right to exercise every word in the english language, then it is a waste of coding time and should be removed.
The fact of the matter is, people swear. I can be both eloquent and swear like a sailor, depending on what point I'm trying to make. My character reflects this as well, although I try to tone down both extremes (trolls aren't the most eloquent of denizens). Regardless of whether 'four letter' words are taboo, they have as much value as any other word.
^ Agree.

Though I don't swear all that much, I really hate feeling like I'm always looking out for some 7 year old who shouldn't be playing anyways or someone who'll freak out when they should have had their filter on if they don't like swears.

Swearing to me is a very life-like thing and I won't pussy foot around them when a swear must be sworn. Though, my character WILL avoid your character IC if you're forming a sentence that would consist of one giant bleep on the filters. This might be your problem.

As for whether to change your vocab or not that's all up to you. Some people might get offended if you do, but whatev.' I say just play her however the hell you want to.


Creating a list of Azerothian curses might actually be a fun TNG project.....
I concur and I could use the laughs as well. ^ ^ I always love things like this... I had a troll once way back when that would say "Suck an elf!" and other expressions like the trolls in The Tenth Kingdom did. I'm so bad at thinking up new ones on the spot though.

[Okhu]

Do what you want Vilmah, if elitists have a problem with it. More power to them.. just don't RP with them. Problem solved.

Or to put it in more -trollish- lingo.

LOL QQ MOAR ELITISTS. DON'T LIKE HOW SOMEONE TALKS?..LOL SUX FOR YOU. THATS WUT IGNORES FOR.

Ye varily.

[Vilmah]

Cat walks into bar full of Grim. " 'Sup, Bitches!"

Funny you should say that, as one of Cat's best friends is one of your boys.. HA! And you know what I find even funnier, is that people are also upset with trolls who don't RP with accents. What do you all think? Are trollish accents implied? Or is it required that people type with them?

[Ellsbeth]

People don't seem to care about whether your troll has an accent or not. I have two regular trolls that I play. One with accent. One without. Mostly they care whether your accent is easily legible and they don't have to rely too much on phonetics.

My little pet peeve is when trolls speak in accent while speaking troll. That feels like when I used to hear English speaking people use English accents while speaking Portuguese. I had no idea what they were saying. So I roleplay accordingly with my trolls.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

One of my characters says the most offensive things imaginable. I don't have a problem with it Vil.

/shrug

[Tirralys]

My little pet peeve is when trolls speak in accent while speaking troll. That feels like when I used to hear English speaking people use English accents while speaking Portuguese. I had no idea what they were saying. So I roleplay accordingly with my trolls.

I forget about this all the time heh. Not like it's intentional - you just get used to typing the one way with that character and you might forget to switch up when you hit the little troll button above your chat.

Troll: Lovely day out, in'it govena? Fantastic, simply marvelous!

Orcish: Eh mon, sun be shinin' pretty bright out!

>_>

Moving along, I had Abric tell me certain words weren't cool in the WoW universe, such as the word Nerd. He gave me an earful, and I finally changed it to Goblin-like. But -then-, I went back and defined Nerd in my roleplay, and then it became an acceptable word to use.

N.E.R.D. = Not Exactly Race Defined

So, now my character can go around calling people nerds in character. I did the same thing for G.U.I.T.A.R., and I'll probably do the same thing for other words not mentioned in Warcraft. Try it, it's kind of fun o.o

[Libelle]

Meh. I think there are enough modern elements in the game that it doesn't matter. I don't see WoW as a Pure High-Fantasy Realm of Utmost Purity and Dragons. It has gnomes who race cars and references to pop culture. Part of WoW's charm is the funny little ways that it incorporates the terrifying world of IRL into its workings. If your character is part of that, I think it's quirky and entertaining, and not particularly jarring.

[Tirralys]

Meh. I think there are enough modern elements in the game that it doesn't matter. I don't see WoW as a Pure High-Fantasy Realm of Utmost Purity and Dragons. It has gnomes who race cars and references to pop culture. Part of WoW's charm is the funny little ways that it incorporates the terrifying world of IRL into its workings. If your character is part of that, I think it's quirky and entertaining, and not particularly jarring.

^This too

[Raziel]

Part of WoW's charm is the funny little ways that it incorporates the terrifying world of IRL into its workings. If your character is part of that, I think it's quirky and entertaining, and not particularly jarring.

It's not terrifying until Goblins hijack Gnomish Gyrocopters and crash them into Dalaran's Violet Towers.

[Yatokth]

It's not terrifying until Goblins hijack Gnomish Gyrocopters and crash them into Dalaran's Violet Towers.

I put this in back of my head to photoshop at a later date...

For the epic lulz.

[Vilmah]

I put this in back of my head to photoshop at a later date...

For the epic lulz.

"Damn it, Cat! I told you you didn't know how to fly!"

"Fu** you you fu**ing fu** filled fubolg!!"

[Averilyna]

Use "chick" and "dude" and whatever words you want - Warcraft isn't just high fantasy, there's alot of contemporary language in it - hell, call something "far out" in RP if you want.

You do realize that, having said this, I must now find some way to work "far out" into my RP at least once.

More on topic, I tend to agree with a lot of the people who've posted here. Using words like "bitches" and "dude" is cool for me IC, but don't necessarily expect the rest of us to actually know what you're saying. 'Sides, it's more fun that way. ;-P

[Raziel]

I put this in back of my head to photoshop at a later date...

For the epic lulz.

Oooh the Gnomanity!

[Yatokth]

Oooh the Gnomanity!

This quote will be included. XD

[teutelquessir]

I'm somewhat of a mixed bag regarding this subject.

Personally, vulgar language doesn't offend me. I was in the Navy. I can cuss like a sailor with the best of 'em! I don't run my profanity filter for one very simple reason; it's over sensitive. "Jane Doe scrapes the mud off her boot." becomes "Jane Doe s@#$*# the mud off her boot." Uh... wtf, over? After a variety of these comical censorships, I stopped running the filter to avoid offending Blizzard's stupid programing.

From an IC standpoint, one of my toons who has interacted with Cat thinks she's crude but such is life and it's not his business to do anything about her behaviour. Maybe she hung around goblins too much? Another one of my toons has overheard her and was horribly embarassed but never made a peep and quietly departed the area. The third toon which has also overheard her just shrugged it off and kept on about her business. We're in a war and soldiers will be soldiers!

But, as previously pointed out, Blizzard does have a service use agreement which specifically prohibits that sort of language and behaviour in public channels. Remember, playing this game is a privilege (which we pay for O_o) and not a right. We all agreed to play by their rules when we logged in. The fairness of this agreement is not up for debate and the GMs will enforce it. Arguing that sixth graders hear and say worse doesn't hold any water because we all agree to behave according to Blizzard's rules in public channels.

[Tirralys]

THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbMk29LVZU8)

Of course, I don't care either way...excessive can be excessive.

[Naheal]

Isn't orcish or common some other language translated to english? What's the problem with using modern terms since the language they'd be using wouldn't be even remotely close to english?

Hell, if you really want to get down into it, the sheer fact that characters from another world are speaking anything even remotely close to english is acinine.

[RavenReverend]

But I use those kind of insults too! I just use them in conjunction with the modern terms. Like, "fuckin' goddamn murloc breath", or, "assfaced centaur dicked motherfucker".

Wouldn't that be a compliment though? o_O I mean they WOULD be hung like horses....

As far as profanity is concerned, I think my Orcs would probably just accept it, whereas Feral would probably raise a brow and get a little more uptight if it continued, simply because she's not used to being talked to like that. Twostrike would probably try to laugh it off but would also be rather uncomfortable. If people have problems staying in character due to language use from other players, me thinks they need to go back to playing My Little Pony BESM style.

[Amoola]

Profanity use is on a character by character basis, for me. I have no issues with other people's characters swearing like sailors til they are blue in the face. On the other hand unless something is going very *VERY* wrong you won't hear my characters toss the F bomb or other base profanity. Like Brig and some others if I'm going to through something at someone then I want to do it with style. All of my characters are pretty smart (not geniuses or anything but they aren't scraping the bottom of the brains barrel either), so I try to come up with something at least mildly creative to go with it.

[Rand_Shea]

I don't really care, you just may want to be careful because other people might QQ about seeing too many )#(&#37;#@)%& or naughty words if their filter is off.

At least you're not making up words, like 'moronish'.

[Taknar]

Meh, people make up words all the time! It's fine.

As for the constant swearing and whatnot, I agree that it shouldn't be there. Keep it up on private forums or whatever, but in game you've made a promise to the company and your fellow players that you would keep the game environment appropriate for, at a minimum requirement of the ratings board, 13 year olds. How realistic that goal isn't doesn't matter a bit if you have agreed to that goal.

I use the same rationality against ERP in game as well.