[Discussion] Higher forms of writing?

[Abric]

Whoa, wait a minute. Did some folks just say that cyber sex is a higher form of writing? I thought I just read that. Did I read that? I'm curious about that line of thought.

My ability to describe my penis in three different ways puts me on a higher pedestal than your normal writer? Is that above or below Stephen King?

[Soa]

Whoa, wait a minute. Did some folks just say that cyber sex is a higher form of writing? I thought I just read that. Did I read that? I'm curious about that line of thought.

My ability to describe my penis in three different ways puts me on a higher pedestal than your normal writer? Is that above or below Stephen King?

ERP in my opinion is a higher form because anyone can witness and be good at RP. Seeing Rp, picking up words, ideas, subjects and all that, through my experience is the best way of learning how to RP. But in ERP, I've experienced someone who was simply amazing at RP but was horrible at ERP and admitted it because he didn't have much experience with it. To experience is to learn and to learn is to perfect. You don't watch people ERP all the time (maybe) and so you can't really get a good grasp at it. It requires a lot of additional RP education to get into (if you're into ERP). Some people prefer to not ERP, others don't mind it then there's those who seek it out specifically. From my own experience the best RP'ers were also amazing at ERP.

The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because it's a whole different field of RP. Sure you're limited to description words of a penis, however actions, emotions, small phrases and creativity so it's not repeatative isn't so easy. Not to mention if you have a boyfriend/girlfriend who you ERP with often or whatever, you don't want your ERP to be boring using the same words, same blah blah blah. Just the same as normal RP. You need to mix it up, only it's far more difficult when you're restricted to sexual terms and ideas. With normal Rp you're left to be more creative and use of virtually anything you want to enhance your story or current position of event(s).

Maybe I just like my ERP too much and put it on a pedestal higher then normal RP. But to my experience, if you're good at ERP, you're even better at RP because you've expanded your horizons of different styles of RP. Actions are a lot harder to do in emotes than quick thoughts or bursts of speech.

/end ramble x.x

[Nadea]

The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because it's a whole different field of RP.



ERP is a different field of RP. That doesn't mean its a "higher form". At all. I consider them to be two completley different things. Some may be awful at RP, but wonderful with ERP. Or vise versa. By NO means is ERP a "higher form" of RPing. Just a DIFFERENT form.

[Izrail]

A new set of tracks for this topic, so it doesn't derail the other too badly.

[Izrail]

From my own experience the best RP'ers were also amazing at ERP.

First, the key phrase here is "from my own experience."

Second, the latter half of the sentence provides a clue as to why the amazing ERPers were amazing. They were already good RPers. A good RPer can RP well in any situation.

ERP isn't a higher form of writing. Some people write good sex scenes. Some people write good battle scenes. It's a matter of taste and temperament. I suspect that those who think ERP is a higher form of writing think so because of the emotional investment they have in it—the passion for it, the thrill of it, whatever. Even if you're not sexually aroused while participating in ERP, the only reason I can think for people to continue to cyber for extended periods of time is the emotional exhilaration they feel.

You say it's harder because it's more restrictive? I say that makes it easier. You don't need to worry about plot, setting, or character development. There's a formula already in place. People know what they want when they get into it, and judge it based on how well their expectations are met. Fun fact: Stories posted by an unknown name in the now-defunct Adult Tales and Art section were more likely to be read and responded to than stories posted by an unknown name in the Nether Legends section. The standards for porn are lower than the standards for regular writing.

I'll agree it's difficult to do well, but so is any form of writing. As mentioned above, chances are that if you're a good role-player, your sex scenes will be good. So will all your other scenes. Having cyber-sex as some sort of standard for RP is ridiculous. Are actors in the real world less talented if they never perform a sex scene on film?

[Beutha]

. Sure you're limited to description words of a penis.

Or simply don't describe it in any significant detail at all. Let the other player run wild with their own imagination. I would think getting caught in some description contest with yourself would just end up becoming silly.

EDIT: Also concur with Izrail.

[Raziel]

The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because it's a whole different field of RP. Sure you're limited to description words of a penis, however actions, emotions, small phrases and creativity so it's not repeatative isn't so easy. Not to mention if you have a boyfriend/girlfriend who you ERP with often or whatever, you don't want your ERP to be boring using the same words, same blah blah blah. Just the same as normal RP. You need to mix it up, only it's far more difficult when you're restricted to sexual terms and ideas. With normal Rp you're left to be more creative and use of virtually anything you want to enhance your story or current position of event(s).

So what you're saying is


The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because requires the use of a thesaurus.

[Soa]

So what you're saying is: The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because requires the use of a thesaurus.


Would it just be easier if I said a more entertaining form for me instead of you being blatantly rude about it?

[Irontoe]

Raziel actually put that quite well.

[Abric]

Good catch, Izrail. Should of made an off-shot topic instead of responding to the other one. My mistake!

Now, I'm not cracking on folks, much like Raziel isn't, I just find it interesting that people (plural, more than one person) find that cyber sex is some path to a better storyteller. I mean, if cyber sex (let's call it how it is, folks - roleplaying or not, you are having sex over the internet) is your bag, more power to you. But consider it somehow a better route for a better RPer? Or, to be less confrontational - a more experienced RPer.

If you are a good writer, and you like to write about doing nasty things in Silvermoon, I think you can put those energies just as much into the High Fantasy setting that World of Warcraft is supposed to be (was, is, going to be again?) We're in a game of magic, demons, and dragons - not court love, romance, and multi-armed monsters with tentacles for a face.

People will play what they want to play. If you want to have imaginary sex with that hot blonde blood elf - then good for you. But, don't you think you are cheating yourself? Aren't we past AOL and being 14 years old with our very first computers? Aren't we self-styled 'elitists' in the internet community, who immerse ourselves in our characters, to develop them and develop the world around us?

... personally, the excitement and 'taboo' feeling of slipping my tube steak into a fake woman lost its appeal once I got broadband and was able to watch it instead. What i don't get is an epic battle between good and evil, friend and foe - fighting for the life of my country (see: Horde) and for my people's free will (see: Forsaken) against the enemies of the world (see: Scourge.)

If I find during my fight that I meet a girl and the passion and drive is there? Awesome - but aren't we going to get more of a thrill in keeping with that storyline, instead of falling into the B-rated films of having the sex, and just falling into calling each other pet names, instead of fighting our enemies?

I guess that's more a question than a comment. Does that not "do it" for folks? The allure of passion in combat just not as much as describing "my heaving bosom presses against your chest, for I am lost in the heat of your lust."

[The_Golden_Wolf]

Higher form of writing? Depends. It takes someone skilled to divide the lines between something smutty and something actually arousing and erotic to read. Therein lies the twist.

My experience with ERP has been this: It can be far better than the real thing. That said, I have only actually done it a small handful of times with someone I trusted, however... it gave me a level of eroticism and romance that no living breathing man has ever given me. And that my friends, is very sad.

[Malebrignon]

I do not participate in nor, for the most part, enjoy ERP. I never visited the Adult forum when it existed. That said, I'll play the devil's advocate.

"ERP", just like normal RP, is going to mean something different to all the participants. "Erotic" does not necessarily mean "pornographic". I've certainly seen my fair share of porn that was not erotic at all. In pursuing such, one can be trying to take things to a hightened emotional level. After all, I know I've had a girl I really cared about look me in the eyes and show an expression on her face that I knew was just for "us" that was much more erotic and exciting than, say, some chick I met at a bar sticking her hand down my pants and leading me off somewhere private.

While ERP has certainly earned itself a bad name from practitioner screaming about their naughty-in-public RP being griefed to 40-year-old douchebags trying to e-rape players they know damn well are young kids, not all ERP is creepy or even lustful. I've stumbed across some pockets of ERP here and there that were actually quite tender and moving. Conveying that kind of emotion over the internet is not easy. I'm not sure I'm ready to say that it's harder to write than a good non-erotic RP exchange, but I wouldn't dismiss it as "anyone can write porn", especially when a good portion of it really is not porn.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

^ that.

[Ellsbeth]

Good ERP has never existed for me. I prefer writing smut to experiencing it. The delays between responses on their end make me bored.

[Styxen]

Lets be honest as Abric pointed out for the most part ERP is cyber sex, and to push it even more into the realm of the real it's almost never ever about the story itself. It's about typing out something dirty to get yourself going for good old lefty or righty or I suppose a threesome if you are ambidextrous.

We can all pretend no no it's about the romance, and yes I am sure it is in about what 1% of all ERP things. Now I am not saying oh there is something horrible about doing so, porn is the devil, or whatever else you are supposed to be told by your parents and school when you are growing up.

So no, ERP for the most part is just cybering action to get you turned on, that is not a high form of RP and not really what falls into the form of roleplaying at all. Now if you are one of those 1% people (We all are right?) that actually just have it as a story and that's all it honestly is then it could in fact be some good RP but I think that would require much more love and affection than what mostly occurs as the screams of "Fuck me harder!" from the back alleys of Silvermoon.

[Naheal]

ERP != Romance RP.

Romance can be RPed out to be something actually entertaining without involving sex. In a any setting, it's unrealistic to think that there wouldn't be lasting and deep relationships that form between two characters.

Also, being a good writer involves being adept at writing both a romantic scene as well as a battle scene.

I'm not one to say that one is "higher" than the other, but to call them the same is... well... wrong right now.

[Libelle]

I'm curious--where would you say the line is that divides romantic RP from ERP? I've always defined it as the actual explicit roleplay of the sexual act, but from reading some of the responses here it sounds as though others' definitions might differ slightly. So I'm curious.

[Malebrignon]

I'm curious--where would you say the line is that divides romantic RP from ERP? I've always defined it as the actual explicit roleplay of the sexual act, but from reading some of the responses here it sounds as though others' definitions might differ slightly. So I'm curious.

Therein lies the rub. I was on an alt about a year ago out in Feralas and saw "lol. belf cyber in the round thingy" in general chat. I was waiting to run some friends through Dire Maul, so I rode out to check on it. A few more jibes popped into General before I got there. What I came across was an emotional exchange between two fully clothed male belfs. I know both of them IC and OOC and know that their belf males are rather poofy. Yes, there were some emotes that may have implied some kind of physical intimacy, but nothing even close to cyber. I know both of them to be involved in a fair amount of RP that gets classified as ERP and yet I've never thought of either of them as typing one handed with the other jammed into their crotch. They take what they're doing seriously (for the most part) and express emotions other than bloodlust, pride, or other "typical and acceptable" Horde emotions.

As stated earlier, this isn't something I subscribe to. I play hardened killers that shower in blood and eat babies with gusto. Yes, there are people out there that are just cybering, however, I'd hardly even call that ERP. It is, well, Cyber. I think ERP is something more involved than cyber. It's emotional first but often physical, as well. Everyone is going to define it differently. I find it grossly unfair to pigeonhole it as 99% porn/cyber, especially if it's something you've never really experienced or otherwise been involved with. I know a lot more people that participate in ERP for an emotional "rush" over any kind of physical stimulation.

Now, all that said, I am NOT an advocate for ERP, especially in WoW. There are plenty of other outlets for that sort of thing that don't involve sharing a game world with children who may not be ready for this level of emotional intensity. In addition to the obvious legal / moral concerns that go along with the subject, I find it just generally detracts from the actual game aspect. I can't even begin to count the number of times a certain pair of late-night playing belfs I know have ignored my group requests, including direct addresses of them by name, because they were sharing some silly fru-fru "intimate moment" and couldn't be bothered to respond to their guildmaster's request for aid.... of course, I'm not an advocate of ANY kind of RP that prevents you from also actually PLAYING THE DAMNED GAME.

[Izrail]

Romance can be RPed out to be something actually entertaining without involving sex. In a any setting, it's unrealistic to think that there wouldn't be lasting and deep relationships that form between two characters.

Similarly, it's unrealistic to think that there wouldn't be sexual relationships of all kinds within a militaristic fantasy setting. From romance to one-night stands, awkward first times to violent rapes, conventional to taboo, the entire spectrum would be present in any setting—except worlds in which all creatures are asexual. What aspects of life you include in your role-play is up to you and the character you create, of course, but to blindly deny all sexuality because it's a high fantasy setting is absurd. As a warlock, I'm in a unique position to demonstrate the reality of sex within the WoW setting. Her name is Selthea (http://www.tinkersbackpack.com/wowpics/succ1.jpg).

Back to the concept of ERP being a higher form of writing. Those who say they have expanded their RP abilities through ERP are encouraged to apply the creativity they exercise there in other forms of story-telling. If you excel at role-playing sex while keeping your partner(s) engaged on an intellectual level, I'd like to see what kind of diversity you can bring to stories others are more likely to enjoy participating in. The server could always use more epic RP. Don't limit yourself to epic humping.

Also, I hypocritically endorse the following statement.


I'm not an advocate of ANY kind of RP that prevents you from also actually PLAYING THE DAMNED GAME.

[Pearlle]

anything that challenges you will take you to the next level of writing. if you find it easy to write about your penis in an erotic and stimulating way, then cyber probably gets boring for you really quickly. if however you find enjoyment in describing the round curve of a breast or a thigh a delight, and you like learning to linger with such things in writing as much as you do in real life, then by all means...writing it can indeed be a higher form for that person.

some ppl want to write out a battle scene. they want to share with you where every drop of blood went, where every blade landed, every blow struck. and i bet they write it really well. meh, it's not what i want to read.

i don't ERP. i roleplay an adult who does adult things as a 'part' of her whole experience. i like it. and it challenges my writing abilities in the field in which i intend to succeed - adult erotica. so for me, it is a higher form. it wouldn't be for the battle ppl. just makes sense, right?

[Abric]

Erotic (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/erotic)

Let's not mistake romantic storylines and relationships with ERP. What Malebrignon has said, I do agree with... except for the hand down the pants thing, that doesn't happen to Male - he's a virgin.

Romance is a good thing, and can lead to some very good storytelling. Though once you desire to take it to the next step, a proper and well played "fade to black" is something I feel makes a higher caliber player than dropping your drawers and letting the trouser snake loose.

Or member. Or hot, throbbing manhood. Or your sex stick. Or, my personal favorite, the Sword of a Thousand Truths.

SOMEBODY LOVE ME!!!

[Swerto]

...it gave me a level of eroticism and romance that no living breathing man has ever given me. And that my friends, is very sad.


Yes... that is very sad. I need to go punch some men you've met in real life.

[EnheilRas]

Yes... that is very sad. I need to go punch some men you've met in real life.

Sad? ..or Hilarious!

I mean, I adamantly refuse to write in romance or sex into my stories. I find it degrading and against my conservative roots.

But I've done the internet nasty before *shrugs* Back in the day I was quite the charming young man about the internet. Then when I hit 21, I just stopped. No longer had a need to once I was actually getting the real stuff regularly. I mean, why cyber a girl when you can just ..heh.. LARP it?

[Yatokth]

Sad? ..or Hilarious!

I mean, I adamantly refuse to write in romance or sex into my stories. I find it degrading and against my conservative roots.

But I've done the internet nasty before *shrugs* Back in the day I was quite the charming young man about the internet. Then when I hit 21, I just stopped. No longer had a need to once I was actually getting the real stuff regularly. I mean, why cyber a girl when you can just ..heh.. LARP it?

I lol'd.

[Grev]

ERP is part of the reason roleplayers have brought such a stigma on themselves from "normal" people.

If you regulate your own roleplaying I have no problem with your erotic lesbian vampire threesomes, but keep it regulated. This is a family game and that prying rogue who stumbles upon your fun in Silvermoon could be a 12 year old kid. In other words, keep it in private channels.

But considering ERP a "higher form" of roleplaying from traditional writing sounds hilariously pretentious and self-congratulatory. Writing is writing. Subject matter has little to do with the quality of it.

[Xaraphyne]

But considering ERP a "higher form" of roleplaying from traditional writing sounds hilariously pretentious and self-congratulatory. Writing is writing. Subject matter has little to do with the quality of it.

This. I don't get calling it "higher" at all. That said, since some replies have touched on the value of ERP in general...

Why do people roleplay? To explore what a character, a concept, will do in a given situation. To see how they react to their circumstances, the challenges that face them, the people they meet; how their flaws and virtues shape their lives. This is what enthralls, what gets the imagination going and makes you feel like you've created something, when you've defined a character who is unique, a person of their own.

So why exclude sex and/or eroticism from that? I'm not afraid or disapproving of it, personally. So I don't need to limit myself to characters who don't explore that aspect of their personalities. It's just as interesting as any other character interaction.

That said, there are lines. I wouldn't advocate role playing sexual scenes with someone you don't know. You need a good grasp of how the person you're role playing with feels about it and how it would affect them; there's just too much misunderstanding that can happen, and it requires a level of maturity.

[Ellsbeth]

I don't often write about my character taking a dump. Maybe I should do that more often to experience what my character is experiencing to the full extent.

[Xaraphyne]

Your anology disappoints me.

[Nymare]

I don't often write about my character taking a dump. Maybe I should do that more often to experience what my character is experiencing to the full extent.

Does it affect your character, help you explore certain aspects of your character that you weren't, previously, aware of? Or, like breathing, is it just something your character does and, therefor, doesn't have to be written? Unless, of course, there are complications... like lack of fiber... Then, by all means, write paragraph emotes on how this makes your character feel and brings it to epiphanies about itself.

Or, like Abric said, just "fade to black".

Ellsbeth, with a look of distress on her decaying features, rushes behind the nearest bush and grunts.

Half an hour later, she emerges with a look of much needed relief.

And, Abric... you listed more than 3 different ways to describe your a wang. Check your achievements list, I think you get a special title now.

[Ellsbeth]

Well slightly off topic so I gather this will all be removed, but Ellsbeth -has- no removal functions as she doesn't ingest anything. My other alts, well that can be a helpful insight to their growth as individuals I'm sure.

[Chikt]

*Insert Words of Wisdom here*

Exactly what Xara said. I don't thin ERP is anywhere near some kind of "higher form of writing". It is exploration of a character and the way they act, sure. And in a lot of respects I often think it's sometimes best to leave the specifics out of the way ERP unfolds. "Drawing the curtains" as it were. If you are going to explore the character more deeper ways of the way your character acts, then perhaps exploring that more deeply is worth it.

I think the stigma against ERP arises because of the fact that I'd say most RPers that ERP don't do it out of some desire to explore their character and develop them, but out of a desire to... well, get their rocks off. I think almost everybody that ERP's starts out that way though and you just need to grow up and out of acting that way.

As far as Dio is concerned, ERP has made him more complicated and developed him in such a way that I would never have thought to develop him. He has new fears and desires that he would not have otherwise had if he'd not gotten into sexual situations and it's made him flawed and... well, human, so to speak.

It makes for a far more interesting exploration of character when you create such a connection with another character and what sort of things can bloom from such a relationship. Be the ERP the result of love or otherwise.

I'm an RPer that largely lets my character dictate their own actions and grow into something I would never have thought to grow them into.


I don't often write about my character taking a dump. Maybe I should do that more often to experience what my character is experiencing to the full extent.

If exploring your shit is something your character would do, why not? You know, in real life, taking a dump is more a day to day ritual that people don't really speak about, so I don't know how you'd explore that in RP beyond saying to people "I'm going to take a dump, give me a sec."

The Grim talk a lot about doing everything in RP, so why not? If your character would explore that aspect of themselves, then by all means, tell the world about your taking a dump! Why the hell not? It certainly would define them in an interesting way.

[Ellsbeth]

Okay teasing trolling out of the way. My point is this.

Sex has not changed me as a person in real life. My sexual attachments created no growth as a person. When I had sex the first time I was so disappointed by the fact that nothing felt different. I was the same me that showed up for the encounter as the one who left.

Relationships, yes that can change a person. But the actual sex in that relationship? Not so much. If I am growing emotionally by the amount of sex I have or do not have, I take some astonishment at that. Because sex does not mature a person. It does not fix a person's ills. I work with older men who screw everything that moves. They are not emotionally superior because of it.

I have yet to experience any ERP that grows a relationship emotional. The actual sex part? No. The emotional bonding around the sex part? Yes. They can be exclusive of eachother.

Also for clarification, I am not Grim.

[Qabian]

The Grim talk a lot about doing everything in RP, so why not? If your character would explore that aspect of themselves, then by all means, tell the world about your taking a dump! Why the hell not? It certainly would define them in an interesting way.

I think this has happened. I don't recall who it was and that's probably for the best, because I seem to remember my character trying not to throw up.

I'm a massive liar when it comes to this stuff, so I'll just say this. It is possible for characters to get involved in something the player has no interest in whatsoever for the sake of story. Just because Qabian sets babies on fire does not mean I have any interest in doing the same.

And yes, "fade to black" is exceedingly useful. But just because someone might emote what goes on behind the curtains on occasion doesn't make them better or worse at anything. This whole conversation is ridiculous.

[Chikt]

Okay teasing trolling out of the way. My point is this.

Sex has not changed me as a person in real life. My sexual attachments created no growth as a person. When I had sex the first time I was so disappointed by the fact that nothing felt different. I was the same me that showed up for the encounter as the one who left.

In the fact that you were disappointed by it and the fact it didn't grow you, it has defined you. Because I am sure there will be people out there that will feel differently from you. It hasn't changed you, no, I don't think that's what we're suggesting. Merely that it brings growth and understanding. You learned something about yourself, or at least as far as sex is concerned with you.


Relationships, yes that can change a person. But the actual sex in that relationship? Not so much. If I am growing emotionally by the amount of sex I have or do not have, I take some astonishment at that. Because sex does not mature a person. It does not fix a person's ills. I work with older men who screw everything that moves. They are not emotionally superior because of it.

I have yet to experience any ERP that grows a relationship emotional. The actual sex part? No. The emotional bonding around the sex part? Yes. They can be exclusive of eachother. Seriously.

But that's just your experience, not the experience of others. And I'd say it's safe to say for a lot of people in this topic that they believe that sex has somehow effected their character, indirectly or not.


Also for clarification, I am not Grim.

Merely using them as an example.


I think this has happened. I don't recall who it was and that's probably for the best, because I seem to remember my character trying not to throw up.

I'm a massive liar when it comes to this stuff, so I'll just say this. It is possible for characters to get involved in something the player has no interest in whatsoever for the sake of story. Just because Qabian sets babies on fire does not mean I have any interest in doing the same.

And yes, "fade to black" is exceedingly useful. But just because someone might emote what goes on behind the curtains on occasion doesn't make them better or worse at anything. This whole conversation is ridiculous.

It wouldn't surprise me at all that it has been RPed out, not in the least. But I totally agree with you totally on your second point there.

[Raziel]

Moar Fecal ERP is required!

[Ellsbeth]

In the fact that you were disappointed by it and the fact it didn't grow you, it has defined you.

No it didn't define who I am as a person. I don't walk up to people now and when they ask what I am I say, "A non-virgin." There was no growth there, negative or otherwise. The same me arrived and left.

It is my own opinion. That's why I said it. You don't really have to point it out my friend.

[Chikt]

No it didn't define who I am as a person. I don't walk up to people now and when they ask what I am I say, "A non-virgin." There was no growth there, negative or otherwise. The same me arrived and left.

It is my own opinion. That's why I said it. You don't really have to point it out my friend.

I didn't mean to suggest it was just your opinion, I meant rather that it was your EXPERIENCE. That's why it defines you as a person, because you have had what will inevitably be a different experience from other people. That's my point. I should have worded that better.

It defines you not to yourself but to others. It's something interesting about you that makes you different from other people.

EDIT: I think that's what this comes down to, really. These are experiences defining our characters.

[Malethia]

ERP doesn't "get my rocks off". They're words on a screen. Is that why some people do it? Sure. But you can't say that it's always for gratification any more than you would for painters who paint nudes.

When I first started WoW RP, I promised myself I wouldn't be one of those people who did it. Part of the reason for that was that it made me uncomfortable. I was eventually roped into it, and I've become more comfortable with doing it - but that first couple of times, I wasn't very sure at all.

I would never call ERP a "higher form of writing", nor would I place it below any other kind. What matters is the quality of it. The difference between Playboy and Hustler, if you will. I've done it to expand myself as a writer, to break down a limitation I had and build my skills.

As far as it disrupting gameplay - I've turned down play opportunities to continue normal RP plenty of times. You can't blame that solely on ERP.

[Agnarr]

I go to the bathroom more often than I have sex. I should write about that, instead.

Actually, I seem to remember a book that went that way. The Old Man and the Sea.

Worst.Book.Ever.

[Vilmah]

H'oooooboy. While I appreciate good ERP writers, I must say that I don't consider ANY RP a "higher form" of RP. Honestly, I think people who can write good battle scenes are the guys who deserve my utmost respect, because I don't like watching fights much, yet if someone can keep me engaged by a good battle scene.. I will be impressed. Sex scenes? Yeah, sure they'll be hot, but I dunno.. I wouldn't call them "higher" in any way.

[Malethia]

Actually, I seem to remember a book that went that way. The Old Man and the Sea.

Worst.Book.Ever.

Joe Dimaggio wouldn't of given up on ERP just because it was hard.

Hah. Hard.

[Yichimet]

A haiku for ERP, by Yichimet:

Pulsing rod. Long dong.
Veiny, folded umbrella.
...folded umbrella?

[Styxen]

Okay not sure if this belongs in it's own new topic or not, but by fact of being lazy I am going to put it here. (I am aware of the irony of the lazy comment while typing out a lot more than I should have to describe myself as lazy, just think of it like rain on your wedding day.)

Going with the ERP description of the actual erotic roleplay, so it's not like a cute romance story or holding hands and skipping down to the park together to share a first kiss. It's writing about or playing out the sex scene, not a fade to black or anything like that, it's going all out.

So going with that description of ERP why does everyone write theirs or role play it out in the game? Is it really about character development, is it really about making sure that you explore ever single aspect of your character. I would think that maybe if you write a well written story and I have seen a few from people, where the story isn't really about the sex as the selling point it does involve real character growth and the sex is just there as the side story or just a brief moment of activity.

Much more often though it's just a story about getting fucked to create an arousal which is fine because I know it may come as a surprise but guys don't get Playboy and such for the articles, if you want to have a porn day with your character more power to you. Some days you got bit by the horny bug and want to have fun with it through your character or whatever, go ahead and do it. It doesn't bother me one dang bit if that's what you want to do.

Just don't try and disguise those moments as oh that's character development they wouldn't be the character they are today if they didn't go off in those bushes with that random gnome or troll. Yes, it might come back some day in one of your stories or whatever but it's not what's going to make or break your character.

So I just want to know why people really write their ERP (Be honest too it's okay if it's for he he titties) is it really because it's integral to their story or is it because you just needed a porn fix for the moment?

[Sifar]

Why? Several reasons depending on the timing of the writing.

The first time I wrote anything along ERP lines was simply to see if I could do it. Could I titillate someone else without becoming graphic or explicit? It was tame to start and progressed as I got a little feedback in the forum. At the same time, it did play into what I was progressing with Sifar at the time. However, this was solo writing and not done as cyber with someone else.

Other times, it was just me being horny. Perhaps I shouldn't say "just" as there was also the desire to do things IC and continue a story to its conclusion. However, if there hadn't been my personal interest, then "fade to black" would work fine. Honestly, that is more often how I expect it to end.

[LorFedorovic]

Wow... people get so crazy over something that shouldn't even matter. So they want to put ERP on a pedestal. They're not saying other forms of RP is easy or that it's crap, they're just saying ERP is more difficult in certain ways, and I tend to agree. Basically they said it.

And yeah, need of a thesaurus makes it more difficult because said thesaurus needs to be in your head. You have no time to look up words, because you have to write them NOW! It's like writing smut really really fast and without having the ability to say "Oh... hang on, I screwed up that last part, lets go back about 5 minutes."

ERP CAN have to do with your story. Two of my characters so far have had ERP related to their plot, and I think this makes the better ERP, when it isn't just "Hey, lets go du eet."

If you want to say ERP isn't more difficult in certain ways, be my guest, but I doubt you're an ERPer in that case. I love regular RP to death and I do ERP occasionally, but like I've said before I avoid ERP just because it's more difficult and not quite as enjoyable as regular RP to me.

Sometimes it can just be "cyber" but to have good ERP that, quite frankly, can and will fit in with a characters story is one of the most difficult things I've come across in this game.

Anyways, "higher" isn't the word I would have used, but it is more difficult in ways. It just seems odd to me to get all upset over a word choice.

[Ofanim]

Woah now simmer down, I think what people are trying to get at is that they are saying woo cybering isn't really a fantastic form of RP. Because as most people see it, and bears, is that cybering is just typing out your sexual wants and needs on the screen so as to have some form of release and yes in that form I would agree and say that's not really RP in that you aren't really even caring about your character at that point you are caring about your own desires through them.

Now if you have a cute romantic story line with hand holding, romantic picnics, strolling through the park, ending up back at your place or on the hill in the sunset making love then no it's not the same thing and can be very high forms of RP just like anything else.

All RP requires a mental thesaurus of some sort, so to believe you would only need that skill in sexual stories is not a good idea. We should all be striving for good word choice whether it be for penis or cheese.

Anything that helps to advance a character along the path is good whether it be through war, sex, or talking to a chair. Though just as people think god moding your way through a fight is dumb and pointless RP, such as soloing down Illidan or just saying you can kill any character without breaking a sweat. So too do I believe that saying a random cyber encounter is important for character development. Never have I heard from anyone after a booty call that they feel like they are a more well rounded individual or that it is an experience that has somehow changed their life.

But that's just one bears opinion.

[Gorymoru]

Hmm...I said I would just leave this alone...but since someone posted again..I spose I'll throw in Gory two cents ((sense?)).

ERP is a form of writing. RP is a form of writing. All writing is a metaphorical or literal depiction of your mood, state of mind, and outlook on life. I try to keep my criticism of anything people write to minimum, minus structural issues. Actual content, I don't believe I have ever slighted....IF IT IS FUCKING ORIGINAL!!! I'm sorry...but if I see one more backstory that has been stolen from something else ((Not an idea taken and given credit...have to cover my own tracks here ^_^)) But an entire story that the names were just changed in...I'm going to develop an aneurysm.

Point being is...Writing is a person's expression...their essence. Who are you to insult or judge it?

Back to the topic of ERP vs RP/other forms of writing, and away from quality control.

I find, that in the right circumstances, ERP keeps things mixed up. I also find it...like anything else...very abused at times. Saddening...but everything will be abused at some point.

Final word: ERP is just another form of writing. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not cyber. Cyber is something completely different. If you want to imagine yourself doing what you are describing during an ERP session...then it's your personal cyber session. It's not the general publics ((or it shouldn't be....*nerf /1*.

Gory rant over. KaythxBAI!

[Thrysta]

((
Explaining how your character is putting their ding-dong in another
character is not a higher form of roleplaying.
))

[Xaraphyne]

So I just want to know why people really write their ERP (Be honest too it's okay if it's for he he titties) is it really because it's integral to their story or is it because you just needed a porn fix for the moment?

Honestly, I really enjoy discovering every aspect of a character's personality. Some characters are sweet and passionate; some not so gentle; some just don't have a freaking clue what it's about.

And the reason why this is the undeniable truth about me? Because when I just want cyber, I don't do it IC.



:D

[Bahlmoral]

Saying it's a higher form of writing is like saying anything that starts with "Dear Penthouse" should be a Pultizer Prize winning piece of writing...

[Larrendias]

As one who has had to suffer through the regimented and pretentious world of so-called "formal" Creative Writing, I will first offer the following dollop of acumen for your consideration.

Do not be so swift, in your passion for this fledgling mode of art, to rush out into the world and define yourselves. Words like 'form' and 'style' typically wind up as nothing more than the literal gang rape of creativity and free expression within a given outlet of passion such as writing.

There is very likely not a single academian of 'repute' (you will note that I do not invoke that word fondly) that would think any one of you more than simple, 'low-brow' writers of smut. They would consider nearly everything that any of you have penned as little more than a repetitious regurgitation from within the conventions of an established and tired genre ghetto.

Stop treating each other as they would treat you. Their modes of art have become sickly, pretentious and contemptuous. They have quite literally soiled their pond.

To the specific points that have been raised, I offer the following opinions:

1.) No 'form' of art is 'higher' than any other. You would be best served to strike that notion from your mind.

2.) Erotic depiction and imagery has been ingrained within the artistic expression of humanity since some of the earliest scrawlings on cave walls. If you think to strike it down, or even that you are right to do so, you are being foolish.

There are extremists posting here on both sides of this issue. Try to show a little bit more respect for your peers, lest you further derail to become squabbling pockets of militarized elitists.

- Larrendias

[Nasuj]

I have a lot to say on this matter, as I personally despise ERP and hold the belief that it killed a ton of the great RP that *was* Horde side on this server. Instead it degenerated into a bunch of baby mama drama and who was fucking who. It was like being back in high school, yet somehow even more retarded. Sex used to be a kind of exception to our RP instead of the norm.

First of all, ERP is not a higher form of writing. Its fucking cybering. Don't delude yourself that you're somehow better than people who actually interact with each other over the spontaneous course of a story arc when your biggest challenge is deciding to wait until after cunnilingus before sticking your dick into your partner, or just going ahead and doing it because it seems 'grittier'.

World of WARcraft is a World that has had its entire history built upon War (the act, not the Games Workshop game world. Well it has, but that's another argument totally.) War is interesting. Fucking your partner is not. Fantasy is about acts of heroism, barbarism (rape could be considered something here, but I definitely wouldn't consider it erotic.), and bad-ass special effects. A world built for thousands of years on continual struggle is quite honestly far more interesting than whoever your character happens to be boning this week. Even taking Zul'Aman into account.

As for ERP developing your character? I could bother to argue here, but Matt and Trey say it better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oECIKVaz5rc&feature=related

[Izrail]

Has everyone gotten what they needed to get off their chest yet?

[Larrendias]

Has everyone gotten what they needed to get off their chest yet?

No. Still intrigued to the point that I want to meet you in-game, after reading your contributions, here.

Okay, done now.

- Larrendias

[Xaraphyne]

As one who has had to suffer through the regimented and pretentious world of so-called "formal" Creative Writing, I will first offer the following dollop of acumen for your consideration.

Do not be so swift, in your passion for this fledgling mode of art, to rush out into the world and define yourselves. Words like 'form' and 'style' typically wind up as nothing more than the literal gang rape of creativity and free expression within a given outlet of passion such as writing.

There is very likely not a single academian of 'repute' (you will note that I do not invoke that word fondly) that would think any one of you more than simple, 'low-brow' writers of smut. They would consider nearly everything that any of you have penned as little more than a repetitious regurgitation from within the conventions of an established and tired genre ghetto.

Stop treating each other as they would treat you. Their modes of art have become sickly, pretentious and contemptuous. They have quite literally soiled their pond.

To the specific points that have been raised, I offer the following opinions:

1.) No 'form' of art is 'higher' than any other. You would be best served to strike that notion from your mind.

2.) Erotic depiction and imagery has been ingrained within the artistic expression of humanity since some of the earliest scrawlings on cave walls. If you think to strike it down, or even that you are right to do so, you are being foolish.

There are extremists posting here on both sides of this issue. Try to show a little bit more respect for your peers, lest you further derail to become squabbling pockets of militarized elitists.

- Larrendias

Holy crap, please tell me your form of speaking was tongue-in-cheek here.

[Larrendias]

Bravo.

- Larrendias

[Qabian]

The word literally is used incorrectly in a liberal manner. Difficult to take seriously anyway, hm?

Yichi's haiku scares me. A lot.

[Skafloc]

Personally I think this whole thread is a moot point. There is only RP for me. ERP? What is that exactly? Is it something specific above and beyond any normal story character reactions in a role play environment where love,hate, violence, sexuality and conflict can ensure? If it isn't, then how can it be a so called higher form of writing? Its rp.. plain and simple. Unless it stands alone on its own merit then it is simply cybering. It has nothing to do with the character and the story.

Just my thoughts on this.

Not to mention, it really isn't writing. Its typing duologue and emotes. You want a higher form of writing. Write a story or a journal. There are journals here that are outstanding.

[Rand_Shea]

It depends on what you mean by 'ERP'.

Do you mean people just going "/me fucks so-and-so so hard UNF UNF UNF!" or someone who is actually putting more effort and trying to convey feelings and emotions?

Are you talking about the people who cyber in public places, strip their characters in the inn and sit on the beds on top of each other (I really don't care if it's in party chat or not... if I see people doing this, I know what you're doing, even if you deny it), or who write those kinds of scenes for other reasons not including exhibitionism somewhere where it's not easy to find them?

For myself, I sometimes like to see if I can write something like that better than those cheesey romance novel authors, or if I can possibly do better than whoever it is that writes up scrips for pornos. Why? Because some of the best writers in the world can have the imagination make the reader feel like they're not only looking through the eyes of the character, but are the character.

So, pardon me if I don't agree with the stigma that people who 'ERP' (aka: cyber) are all horrible RPers because they like to play out sex scenes. Just because you don't doesn't mean anything in regards to whether or not you're the better person for NOT doing so.

[Izrail]

It depends on what you mean by 'ERP'.

Do you mean people just going "/me fucks so-and-so so hard UNF UNF UNF!" or someone who is actually putting more effort and trying to convey feelings and emotions?


Respondents are divided as to whether there's a difference, but the general consensus is that if it's good RP, it's good RP, no matter what MPAA rating is attached to it.

Be right back, off to research methods of turning a dead horse into glue.

[Skafloc]

So, pardon me if I don't agree with the stigma that people who 'ERP' (aka: cyber) are all horrible RPers because they like to play out sex scenes.

See I guess this is where for me I feel it is perspective. I don't view ERP and Cybering as being the same thing. 'ERP' doesn't exist for me. There is only character rp. If that leads to some erotic "erp" scenario so be it. If its part of the character and story then it is role play. I don't equate that to cybering, which for me is acting out sex scenes in isolation without any rhyme or reason as it relates to the characters. i.e. if it is basically nothing more than an online hookup. I don't see that as artistic in any way.

[LorFedorovic]

Wow. Yeah, to me ERP is not cybering. In fact I'd think to any person who's ERPed it isn't cybering. Cybering has nothing to do with plot and it could be done in any old chatroom with or without any specific character in mind. ERP isn't always "I put my wang in your vag." There's a lot more to it than that and quite frankly you need to get the hell out of Silvermoon City and stop spending time with that level 10 named "honeyteets" if you think that's all it is.

STOP CALLING IT CYBERING! It's downright rude. We get it, you don't like ERPers. Go to hell.

Now, this discussion is about ERP. Not cyber.

RP is difficult. ERP is also difficult. All I personally am saying is that in ERP one must make something original out of a very unoriginal idea. You're given a cake recipe and Kaga is not going to be impressed if you don't use the secret ingredient of the day to spice things up! Sex is in essence a very boring thing which ERPers must find a way to make NOT boring. In all other RP you can think up all kinds of situations with which to not make things repetitive and boring, but ERPers don't really have the option of doing different sorts of things. It's just plain old same old sex. And that's why I feel it's ever so slightly more difficult.

Now, no where in all of this post did I write "Reg'lar RP is for lame-os! Lolzor!" and no one said they were better people than any one else in this thread. Don't start reading things that aren't there. So I really don't see what the big deal is and why people are busting in here with their sarcasm and attacks on ERPers with "Wow. Good for you. You can RP putting a wang in a vag." You don't like to ERP good for you, go ahead and don't ERP, but don't insult what ERPers do in the process of defending your mysteriously hurt ego. Hell, you don't think it's a "higher" form of RP, fine. I can accept that (especially since I don't really agree with using that word for it) and am willing to discuss, but how about we not act like 10 year olds. That's not really "discussing" the idea when you're making personal jabs.

I'd also like to add, to you last three posters, I really like your ideas. Truthfully I'd never considered ERP just as RP due to the extreme need which everyone has to separate it. I mean, it's even mentioned and suddenly you're considered an odd ball. *points at peoples violent reactions* It is a nice thought to just consider it RP with no additional labels. I mean, good RPers can blend all aspects of their character together anyways, and it's not like I ever say to myself "Alright, time for me to stop RPing and go ERP." For me it's just that I really hate the "fade to black" BS. I also think calling it ERP helps to separate the ERP-friendly (those that don't instantly freak out at it's mention) and the anti-ERPers so that you can find those you're more comfortable RPing openly with, and without fearing of a sudden "OMFG! YOU ERP! EW! I DON'T WANNA RP WITH YOU NO MORE!"

[Yichimet]

All I personally am saying is that in ERP one must make something original out of a very unoriginal idea.

Wise man say: there is nothing new under sun.

[Acherontia]

((
Explaining how your character is putting their ding-dong in another
character is not a higher form of roleplaying.
))

This.

[Yatokth]

Wise man say: there is nothing new under sun.

Truth.


I'd also like to add, to you last three posters, I really like your ideas. Truthfully I'd never considered ERP just as RP due to the extreme need which everyone has to separate it. I mean, it's even mentioned and suddenly you're considered an odd ball. *points at peoples violent reactions* It is a nice thought to just consider it RP with no additional labels. I mean, good RPers can blend all aspects of their character together anyways, and it's not like I ever say to myself "Alright, time for me to stop RPing and go ERP." For me it's just that I really hate the "fade to black" BS. I also think calling it ERP helps to separate the ERP-friendly (those that don't instantly freak out at it's mention) and the anti-ERPers so that you can find those you're more comfortable RPing openly with, and without fearing of a sudden "OMFG! YOU ERP! EW! I DON'T WANNA RP WITH YOU NO MORE!"

This is a good approach - I don't mind those who want to go past 'fade to black', but I don't.

Doesn't mean I won't RP with ya.

[Ellsbeth]

I have ERP'd when I played Solenev regularly.

It was all ding-dong in the hole no matter what I as a roleplayer did. This was with some of the better RPers on the server too. When you're waiting on them to respond it's cyber.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

lol @ ding-dong

[Tirralys]

Mental stimulation > physical stimulation for some people, myself included.

I do not ERP any more (cyber and ERP are a bit different just to note - I've seen both types and cyber is very much a lesser form of ERP) but I used to. It was fun. And it did help me develop myself as a role player in whole - why? Because I know how to freak up a woman in fifty assorted ways? No. Because the people I role played with were good role players, and their styles and techniques rolled off on me. I'm not saying I retained all of my role play goodness (just like I haven't retained calculus) but it still helped develop to where I am now.

ERP, in itself, is not the overall issue in my eyes. It's just that - when that's -all- you do, it's kind of - wait, refrase - it's very annoying.

"Hi, my name is Joe Blow, my character is a sex fiend and I want to do it allll night loooong" errr....no.

"We had a wonderful picnic tonight Joe Blow, and I really liked the flowers, I find myself falling in love with you" ...yes.

There's a right way and a wrong way going about it. Getting to 'it' shouldn't be the primary goal either, it should come and go with RP as the seasons change. And just because you 'got down' with a character doesn't mean you can just show up every night after that for a 'booty call'. No. ERP should not, in my opinion, be the every-waking reason to RP.

So, two characters had some fun, you both show up the next day wanting to see each other again, right? Of course you do! But maybe you go back to your daily routines as that was just a special night, or maybe it's time to go discuss what you're going to tell your friends and loved ones. Then you go and slay some scourge because, well, it's the right thing to do in this war-torn world.

So, when it comes to Silvermoon and Goldshire, the fact that they do these things in public isn't what most annoys me (though it does annoy me) it's the fact that - that's all they do! Get out and get some diversity in your role play you lunatics! >_>

[Vilmah]

This was with some of the better RPers on the server too.


I expect better of someone like Skafloc! (J/K <3)

Seriously, that surprises me though. I like writing ERP stories inspired by things that happened in RP. Like when we were talking in OOC about how Nin's family is really hot, and we ended up having incest-themed dream RPs. I got a kick out of those. specially when her brother woke up screaming, and her sister was more like, "Huh. Well, maybe.. no wait, no!"

[Soa]

Wow. Yeah, to me ERP is not cybering. In fact I'd think to any person who's ERPed it isn't cybering. Cybering has nothing to do with plot and it could be done in any old chatroom with or without any specific character in mind. ERP isn't always "I put my wang in your vag." There's a lot more to it than that and quite frankly you need to get the hell out of Silvermoon City and stop spending time with that level 10 named "honeyteets" if you think that's all it is.

STOP CALLING IT CYBERING! It's downright rude. We get it, you don't like ERPers. Go to hell.

Now, this discussion is about ERP. Not cyber.

RP is difficult. ERP is also difficult. All I personally am saying is that in ERP one must make something original out of a very unoriginal idea. You're given a cake recipe and Kaga is not going to be impressed if you don't use the secret ingredient of the day to spice things up! Sex is in essence a very boring thing which ERPers must find a way to make NOT boring. In all other RP you can think up all kinds of situations with which to not make things repetitive and boring, but ERPers don't really have the option of doing different sorts of things. It's just plain old same old sex. And that's why I feel it's ever so slightly more difficult.

Now, no where in all of this post did I write "Reg'lar RP is for lame-os! Lolzor!" and no one said they were better people than any one else in this thread. Don't start reading things that aren't there. So I really don't see what the big deal is and why people are busting in here with their sarcasm and attacks on ERPers with "Wow. Good for you. You can RP putting a wang in a vag." You don't like to ERP good for you, go ahead and don't ERP, but don't insult what ERPers do in the process of defending your mysteriously hurt ego. Hell, you don't think it's a "higher" form of RP, fine. I can accept that (especially since I don't really agree with using that word for it) and am willing to discuss, but how about we not act like 10 year olds. That's not really "discussing" the idea when you're making personal jabs.

I'd also like to add, to you last three posters, I really like your ideas. Truthfully I'd never considered ERP just as RP due to the extreme need which everyone has to separate it. I mean, it's even mentioned and suddenly you're considered an odd ball. *points at peoples violent reactions* It is a nice thought to just consider it RP with no additional labels. I mean, good RPers can blend all aspects of their character together anyways, and it's not like I ever say to myself "Alright, time for me to stop RPing and go ERP." For me it's just that I really hate the "fade to black" BS. I also think calling it ERP helps to separate the ERP-friendly (those that don't instantly freak out at it's mention) and the anti-ERPers so that you can find those you're more comfortable RPing openly with, and without fearing of a sudden "OMFG! YOU ERP! EW! I DON'T WANNA RP WITH YOU NO MORE!"

This.

There's a fine line between ERP and cyber for me. Cyber is when someone approaches me OOC saying or attempting to ask for "erp" on some non-character basis or IC "but it doesn't count" style. I firmly tell people when I'm asked this, "I don't cyber. It's lame." Why? Because cyber = 0 creativity, it's just let's cyber fuck each other then carry on as if nothing happened. Hell, on my oldest server someone who was obsessed with my character/me wanted me to watch him masturbate on his webcam and have me talk dirty to him. That's blatant cyber right there, and can't be yelled any louder than that. Often, as well, cyber occurs on a different messaging service, AIM, MSN or whatever.

Cyber is also often taken in game, as those level 10 sluts who only look for "erp" which possibly borderline erp/cyber. They are acting IC to a minimal extent but ultimately doing it just to gain the cyber sex out of it, which from my observations usually is the worst and most ridiculous style of erp or even cyber. People with poorly constructed sentences, atrocious grammar, spelling, short one to two phrase sentences and they call it erp, hell, that's not even English. Need a fine example? This was from someone who followed suspicious people knowing they were seeking erp, and this is the exact shit that good rp'ers get stereotyped for.

(Links not safe for work. - Izrail)

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_005528.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_010246.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_010453.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_010814.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_011020.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_011603.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_011743.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_012226.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_012234.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Glensmen/RP/WoWScrnShot_080908_012342.jpg

This is what most non-erp'ers look at and judge other rp'ers on. That somehow every rp'er who erps, erps like this. No. Look at that, no emotion, no story, no real purpose, hell, I can go as far to say why the hell would you fuck an undead? It must be the rotting fleshing and smell.

Now, I'll boldly use my own RP logs from my old server, an event which occurred earlier this summer. Romance that leads to erp.

(Removed explicit material. - Izrail.)

The dinner:
[04:19:35] Moona smiles girlishly as she feeds him the fresh salmon. Her eyes study his expressions, his actions and every detail she could physically see on him. She then sets the fork back down to the plate and slides her chair closer to his, thighs nearly touching. -
[04:21:00] Moona 's right arm glides over his shoulders as she relaxes it there, leaning her forehead to his. She then cuts with his fork another small piece and offers it to him. Every moment, every second of this dinner, of her purest of passion drives her eyes to -
[04:22:31] Moona *constantly swirl to a deeper violet. Her scent strong now, both natural and artificial. The smell of her shampoo, her perfume, the natural aroma of her skin all blended in one. Her lips faintly brace across his cheek as she awaits for him to bite.

The steam:
[05:11:52] Moona made no attempt to stop his course of actions, rather instead urged him on by clawing at his body with a thirsty need as if he were to read her thoughts. Her burning heat boiled from deep within her womb to have him seize her and make her his forever. -
[05:13:31] Moona lowers her head and showers small rough kisses that were broken by tiny grunts and broken gasps of breaths on the top of his head. Her hips shift and grind softly against his thigh, her matching white thong bracing his body. Her hesitations and worries -
[05:14:46] Moona *were uplifted. Everything around her seemingly gone. Trapped with the man of her greatest dreams ever who wanted her as bad as she wanted him. Unconsciously acting, her hands discovered their ways to his pants easily pulling down at the fabric.

The romance:
< Has been edited out and will be posted if interested via request in private messages >

Sure, erp has more physical details than emotional but nonetheless it contains everything. At least for me. The romance was there, the setting was perfect and course of actions justified. This wasn't some lamely set up situation just to get erp going, this was a moment to last and to remember, a combination of lust and romance and executed well IMO.

This was RP and ERP and I do sometimes draw a blurry line between them. If I'm really impressed with my partner's RP, I say "your rp is amazing!" Much the same if their ERP is amazing. I wouldn't say "your rp was amazing!" I mean maybe, but to be specific, I'd say ERP.

So for those who argue that erp is cyber, specify where in my samples (if they are any good) when it is cyber and when it is not. From the dinner, to the heated moment to the moment of intercourse. Was it everything entirely or only when sexual terms are being thrown around? Also compare my rp to the screen shot rp. Are those who argue against erp claiming it cyber for horny kids saying mine is the same maybe just has more fancy words? If that's so then perhaps your rp doesn't have considerable involvement of emotions. Now by no means am I saying you must erp to show affection of love, lust, passion, desire and what not, but you shouldn't say "erp is just cyber".

I've erp'd with people who were married irl. Are they over there stroking it? Maybe? I don't care. The ones I did do it with even had their wife watch him erp with me and they liked the ideas and the rp with it. It's not all for arousal or to bust-a-nut (drink booty sweat baby! (movie reference)), sometimes though, it happens with other people, and on other occasions it's more enticing/erotic to know that the other person is touching him/herself on the other side. Then it starts to turn to an argument of if that's cyber or not, but I'll tell you, I like it knowing the guy on the other side is aroused by my rp. Means I'm doing something right. I don't need this approval to influence my rp but little additives don't hurt. And if he doesn't get off to erp, whatever, it's still there, the rp/erp, and we're both participating it and enjoying the time together. If he didn't like it he wouldn't do it as some people have clearly stated.

Compare it to phone sex if you've ever done it when your partner is far away. He/she wants you to be aroused, wants you to touch yourself and phone sex can very easily be lead up to from a normal conversation to "i miss you" to "i want to do this to you". Maybe this example is bad... I'll leave it in the open.

If you've any questions as to my RP then feel free to send me a personal message and not post it on here unless it's absolutely relevant to the topic. (And yes, my character bathes often and I do sometimes RP out when she goes flower picking to make her soaps)

[Kained]

ERP Is a form of Art to some usaly handeld with care, Not just randomly done involving YOUR own ridiculas ideas. Some choose to write it in the form of a story to make the regular RP much more Flavorfull, In turn ERP benefits those mature and adult enogh to go through with it making thier RP a better Storyline.

All though many missconception of most people who ERP are very inexperinced. they happen to do things that would make the other partner quite uncomftrable ruining the moment causing problems and tension that gives off a "Wierd" feeling. Thats why It should be taken slow and with upmost detail. Pausing thinking of what next move would best make the ERP suitible for both.

I myself Enjoy my ERP, I treat it Like art and every new ERP is a new story to write. And when I do, I do my best to hit every fantasy the person i am ERPING with come to life because I know they will enjoy it and as will I. I happen to like seeing people I ERP with come back and say " That was very hot ERP" or " Your really good at this that was great". It makes me happy that I could make them feel well through my writing style. ERP Is much more then just "Cyber" It's a form of art. Those ignorant enogh to just go through it like just Sex Ruin it for us.

And yes as pearlle Said Cyber is just getting to the point, While ERP is describing every sexual detail of the moment from every curve,tip,end,and even feel. Detail is the key that seperates Boring repetetive (Cyber) and Descripted Sexual experince (ERP).



Excuse my very crude English people i apologize I only took about two years of english

((Spain ftl...))

Honostly Cyber looses its touch very fast.

ERP is always amazing, New ways to go new things to explore.

[Yatokth]

The stigma against ERP is as Soa put:

1. Some people do it horribly bad.

2. Some people use it to get off.

Now, there's a stigma against looking at pr0nz or "erotic art" or whatever the hell you want to call it - whether that stigma is right or wrong isn't the issue - it's THERE.

Have you ever read a good book that had a chapter that contained sex? Did you enjoy the book any less? I have, and I know I didn't. It can add to a piece of literature - if used properly. Don't just throw it around willy nilly.

Now, I'm not one to prejudice people for doing whatever the hell they want to do - if you WANT to have meaningless sex over the internet, go for it! Though you should keep it private, stuff IS against the ToS for kids to go around seeing sex0r in their pretendy fun time games.

I don't think sex is neccessary to have a good storyline (even with lust, romance, etc) but if you want to, as I stated, go ahead. Just cause it's not something I enjoy doing doesn't mean I'm going to look down on people who do. That's subscribing to ignorance and prejudice. Not doing that.

BUT: When you start displaying it on your sleeve and rubbing it in people's face that you RP sex, and your character loves teh hawt womenzz.. gtfo. That's just a bad character concept for this game - and I do believe when you RP in this game it should FIT INTO THE GAME.

I'd wager those "bads" are people who find roleplaying during sex to be a fetish, and are doing it over the internet as opposed to in person. That's not WoW RP, that's sex RP. Don't confuse them.

[Yichimet]

Have you ever read a good book that had a chapter that contained sex? Did you enjoy the book any less? I have, and I know I didn't. It can add to a piece of literature - if used properly. Don't just throw it around willy nilly.


Wise man say: it's bad if it's written badly.

[Yatokth]

Wise man say: it's bad if it's written badly.

This is truth.

So who's this wise man you keep getting all these quotes from Yichi?

[LorFedorovic]

ERP, in itself, is not the overall issue in my eyes. It's just that - when that's -all- you do, it's kind of - wait, refrase - it's very annoying.

"Hi, my name is Joe Blow, my character is a sex fiend and I want to do it allll night loooong" errr....no.
I ran into someone like that in game. His name was even suggestive, though I didn't think about it until later. XD We ERP'd once, very IC for that particular character that moment, and after that every time I logged in he was like "Wanna ERP?" @ o;; I had to finally say "Look, I don't ERP all that much, and it's something very character related to me, and it's just not something this character would do right now. Though, I have another Blood Elf that'll ERP... and then steal all your mana and leave you for dead... maybe a couple of stab wounds." He left me alone after that. XD



This is what most non-erp'ers look at and judge other rp'ers on. That somehow every rp'er who erps, erps like this. No. Look at that, no emotion, no story, no real purpose, hell, I can go as far to say why the hell would you fuck an undead? It must be the rotting fleshing and smell.

Omg! I cracked up. I seriously wish the lol-erps would at least put it in party. I mean, hell. I take it to party sometimes when we're not even doing the "low down" erp.

I'm coming to the conclusion that everyone who's been saying "ERP sux cause it involves peen! Ur lame," and obviously not reading anything all of us have been saying, really has never ERPed, nor have they reach past the age of 15.

[Yatokth]

I'm coming to the conclusion that everyone who's been saying "ERP sux cause it involves peen! Ur lame," and obviously not reading anything all of us have been saying, really has never ERPed, nor have they reach past the age of 15.

Or they could be finding your explanations to be dancing around the point.

And they have no interest in ERPing.

And they have different moral standards than you.

Not saying I totally disagree with you (don't come searching for me for ERP. :P) but debasing those who disagree with you isn't any more rational than having blind prejudice against ERPing.

[LorFedorovic]

It's not that they're disagreeing. I'm fine if they don't like ERP, I'd even like a discussion on why people don't like ERP (as part of this has been) as it would be informative, but there've been quite a few who just wander in here, quote something someone else said and add something equivalent to "ERP is dumb." only to have that be quoted next page over and continuing the cycle. Also, this thread isn't about whether you think ERP is crap, it's about people who consider ERP to be something above regular RP.

I could even accept an argument from someone about how they feel ERP is irrelevant to any characters development. I've been waiting for that one. I think it'd make for good discussion if we can do it like adults.

But really, how many of these have you seen?

((
Explaining how your character is putting their ding-dong in another
character is not a higher form of roleplaying.
))
It's getting a bit old.

[Yatokth]

It's not that they're disagreeing. I'm fine if they don't like ERP, I'd even like a discussion on why people don't like ERP (as part of this has been) as it would be informative, but there've been quite a few who just wander in here, quote something someone else said and add something equivalent to "ERP is dumb." only to have that be quoted next page over and continuing the cycle. Also, this thread isn't about whether you think ERP is crap, it's about people who consider ERP to be something above regular RP.

I could even accept an argument from someone about how they feel ERP is irrelevant to any characters development. I've been waiting for that one. I think it'd make for good discussion if we can do it like adults.

VERY WELL.

Devil's Advocate time!

Why do you need to roleplay sex to improve your character's development? You are fully capable of RPing lust and romance without lude displays - you have said so yourself. As another person said earlier (think it was rand, forget though) you can just use the 'fade to black' technique - all the story that needs to be accomplished can be accomplished via implying what happened, as opposed to actually RPing it out for no other reason than it's arousing.

Is there any actual story component being told when you are vigorously humping your partner? I don't think there is. Other than your character being in a state of pleasure, there isn't any 'development' going on, until perhaps you talk about the event after with close friends, and the romance leading up to it.

There's no point to it other than arousal - it doesn't advance your character's story at all.

(The counter argument to this is so, so obvious, but I'll leave others to figure it out.)

[Izrail]

It's not that they're disagreeing. I'm fine if they don't like ERP, I'd even like a discussion on why people don't like ERP (as part of this has been) as it would be informative, but there've been quite a few who just wander in here, quote something someone else said and add something equivalent to "ERP is dumb." only to have that be quoted next page over and continuing the cycle.

That's all a part of the charm of internet arguments and discussions. Don't expect a thread to go in the way that would let you (general, plural "you") flawlessly execute your favorite arguments and convince people you don't know to see things your way.


Also, this thread isn't about whether you think ERP is crap, it's about people who consider ERP to be something above regular RP.

The thread has evolved to include opinions on whether or not people think ERP is crap. I'd rather have them soapbox here than start a new thread and clutter the forum. Which is why this dead horse hasn't been carted off to the glue factory (http://www.atomichobbies.com/assets/images/Oils_Glues_Adhesives/paapt42.jpg) yet.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

Allot of people write terrible erotica. *

I've probably only read a handful of erotic text that I thought was skillfully and artfully done. Part of it I think for me is, certain words set off <porn> signals to me if overused, and yes text can also get too flowery (i do this sometimes bleh). Even ones that are well descripted are tired scenarios, or rehashed detail. Such and such's thigh is milky smooth, the skin reddens bla blah, yah I've heard it.

Also get this, originality. I think about 101001111&#37; of the erotic roleplay on here is kink/bondage based, it is the rule not the exception. Boooring. Lot'sa folks into bloodplay too. /sigh. For me, a skillful erotic scene doesn't even have to be sexual. Take some of Anne Rice's works. Sometimes a mere mood, glance, or way of speaking; void of obvious sexual connotations can be... subtly erotic.

Less is more.

Then again perhaps I am a female. /snerk

Oh and Soa, allot of the males on this server are played by women (myself included). Just thought I should put that out there.

Edited to Add:

Be easy, no need to get all up in arms over this. We don't need to dictate to others, or interrogate them. Does it matter? Goddamn... just roleplay what you want to roleplay and be done with it. Y'all sound like a coop of squabbling hens. /eyeroll

* If this wasn't already blatantly clear, this is all based on personal opinion. No offense meant by it.

[Izrail]

Disclaimer before I continue, for those that are not familiar with my RP: I don't "ERP" the way we have discussed ERPing; I have played it out in-game exactly one time, and decided that it was an interesting experience but not something I wanted to pursue. I have, however, included erotic elements in my RP and, while it lived, was a contributing member of the Adult Tales and Art forum. I won't open the door to ERP with another player until I'm certain that they are a mature adult who can separate IC and OOC.


Why do you need to roleplay sex to improve your character's development?

As mammalian humanoids, my characters are sexual creatures. Just as I take into account their favorite foods, weapons, and recreational activities, I take into account their sexual preferences and activities. I don't need to role-play sex to improve character development, but when it comes up and there's the potential to demonstrate change or use the sexual encounter for change, it's included in the overall story.


As another person said earlier (think it was rand, forget though)

Abric.


you can just use the 'fade to black' technique - all the story that needs to be accomplished can be accomplished via implying what happened, as opposed to actually RPing it out for no other reason than it's arousing.

"Fade to black" is fine if it's understood that the characters involved aren't doing anything out of the ordinary. I prefer to settle via OOC discussion or back-and-forth forum posting what goes on the first time they have sex, and any sexual encounters that happen in unusual circumstances or key points in the story. It's like an argument. Would you be content to leave an argument between characters up to the imagination?

The door closed, and heated words were exchanged.

No, it's better to know what goes on during the interchange because it could change how they interact in-game later. Most of the time I prefer to settle this via behind-the-scenes negotiations than actual role-play.


Is there any actual story component being told when you are vigorously humping your partner? I don't think there is. Other than your character being in a state of pleasure, there isn't any 'development' going on, until perhaps you talk about the event after with close friends, and the romance leading up to it.

If the state of pleasure was static and unchanging, then no development occurs. If the elements of the story at large are taken into account, that pleasure is influenced and in turn influences the story.

[Evanthe]

Everything Izrail said above sums up my experiences and preferences on 'ERP'.

[Yatokth]

Disclaimer before I continue, for those that are not familiar with my RP: I don't "ERP" the way we have discussed ERPing; I have played it out in-game exactly one time, and decided that it was an interesting experience but not something I wanted to pursue. I have, however, included erotic elements in my RP and, while it lived, was a contributing member of the Adult Tales and Art forum. I won't open the door to ERP with another player until I'm certain that they are a mature adult who can separate IC and OOC.



As mammalian humanoids, my characters are sexual creatures. Just as I take into account their favorite foods, weapons, and recreational activities, I take into account their sexual preferences and activities. I don't need to role-play sex to improve character development, but when it comes up and there's the potential to demonstrate change or use the sexual encounter for change, it's included in the overall story.



Abric.



"Fade to black" is fine if it's understood that the characters involved aren't doing anything out of the ordinary. I prefer to settle via OOC discussion or back-and-forth forum posting what goes on the first time they have sex, and any sexual encounters that happen in unusual circumstances or key points in the story. It's like an argument. Would you be content to leave an argument between characters up to the imagination?

The door closed, and heated words were exchanged.

No, it's better to know what goes on during the interchange because it could change how they interact in-game later. Most of the time I prefer to settle this via behind-the-scenes negotiations than actual role-play.



If the state of pleasure was static and unchanging, then no development occurs. If the elements of the story at large are taken into account, that pleasure is influenced and in turn influences the story.

I totally agree with you, I was just presenting the argument. ;)

[LorFedorovic]

Also get this, originality. I think about 101001111&#37; of the erotic roleplay on here is kink/bondage based, it is the rule not the exception. Boooring. Lot'sa folks into bloodplay too. /sigh. For me, a skillful erotic scene doesn't even have to be sexual. Take some of Anne Rice's works. Sometimes a mere mood, glance, or way of speaking; void of obvious sexual connotations can be... subtly erotic.
Well that's what I meant when I told the creepy ERPer about my lock. My one whore-y character is actually one of my least ERP-ish due to the fact he's not really after the sex. He's just a nut that wants mana and is a wimp, hence can't beat it outta people.

I'm not saying most ERPers aren't only out for cyber... because they are. ERP can either create conflict and intrigue for your character, OR it can be the stupidest RP you've ever seen in your life. You get a bit of the best and the worst when dealing with ERP.

I do love just being suggestive and leaving it at that, but I'm not going to start a story, then suddenly say IC "And a curtain falls down and the end." or wait up until the deed and say OOC "Oh, thankyou for the nice innuendo's, see you around." and just walk off. Just seems a bit odd to me, and quite frankly I'm not good enough to pull it off. If a story is going in that direction, I see no problem with seeing it through.

[Izrail]

I totally agree with you, I was just presenting the argument. ;)

Let the record indicate I was aware of this and responded anyway because it was convenient to my interests.

[LorFedorovic]

Oh! Also, EVERYTHING advances your characters story, just as everything that happens to a person advances their IRL story. From getting a new job, to, yes, having fiber issues. Saying having sex hasn't change you whatsoever or made you learn about yourself just can't be. It happened, you thought about it, decided how you felt about the situation, and moved on with that memory stored in your mind. Also, various things during the deed may have swayed you one way or another, which is why I RP the deed out sometimes. Something could happen which makes my character think a different way about it (as has happened to my priest-y as well as myself IRL).

Should have put that in my last post but Izrail's quick. ^ ^;

[Advurb]

Who do people think they are saying one form of writing is "higher" than another?

ERP can be bad just like anything else can. It can also be good in the same way.

If you don't really take to ERP (I happen to fall inside this category) then don't read it. You can't downplay someone's writing just because they have different subject matter.

[Ellsbeth]

In the end it doesn't matter does it?

Those who like it will do it. Those who don't will harp on it. Those who don't see the delineation will assume the guys doing eachother in /say in the fountain in Silvermoon are the same people that are expanding their character. Those people expanding their character will claim those guys are the ones that are hurting ERP and ruining it for the people who do it. Someone will roll a level 10 alt on a RP server and accost people. Someone will lose their character's virginity to their life-love of three story arcs.

And those who don't care won't respond either way.

I'm being facetious I know. But sex really is something that is personal and we all have opinions on it. Please don't take comments about what people think about the ACT of cybersex/ERP as attacks against you. It's against the act. There is a difference.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

Well that's what I meant when I told the creepy ERPer about my lock. My one whore-y character is actually one of my least ERP-ish due to the fact he's not really after the sex. He's just a nut that wants mana and is a wimp, hence can't beat it outta people.

I'm not saying most ERPers aren't only out for cyber... because they are. ERP can either create conflict and intrigue for your character, OR it can be the stupidest RP you've ever seen in your life. You get a bit of the best and the worst when dealing with ERP.

I do love just being suggestive and leaving it at that, but I'm not going to start a story, then suddenly say IC "And a curtain falls down and the end." or wait up until the deed and say OOC "Oh, thankyou for the nice innuendo's, see you around." and just walk off. Just seems a bit odd to me, and quite frankly I'm not good enough to pull it off. If a story is going in that direction, I see no problem with seeing it through.

Nah, I wasn't really promoting fade to black either. It works and it doesn't, depends on your style and interest. What I meant was that there is little to no attention to seduction. Now that takes skill to write and portray. Many of course will be far too eager for this and rush it, thus killing it all together. Remember this is not an activity I have participated in but a couple times.

Seduction, whether anything sexual happens or not is far more interesting to me. One of the male characters I play is very seductive, and never for a moment does he intend to be. Nor would it be immediately obvious. It is in his movements, the way he speaks, sometimes the way he just sits and does nothing. I have crafted him quite carefully to be alluring to men and women. And I've been somewhat successful in this. It is still a work in progress, because I want to make sure not to breech a line where he becomes too feminine, and my gender becomes apparent.

There is a great thrill in writing to challenge yourself to withold information, lure in another character, keep them guessing. Instant satisfaction is just that, instant. And just as quickly, it is gone.

[Raziel]

Oh! Also, EVERYTHING advances your characters story, just as everything that happens to a person advances their IRL story.

Not everything.

A soldier who has killed 10,000 people won't flinch at killing 10,000 more.
The mundane to some may be the astronomical to others.

Eroticism? Mundane.

Especially in a Spartan Society like the Horde has. It's a weakness to show, and showing a weakness is wishing for it to be exploited.

[Rand_Shea]

So... you're saying that to play as a "true Horde", everyone should adopt the Spartan ideologies, even with intimate relationships?

Given that... all female characters should just stand around wearing skimpy clothing and enticing male characters to bed them for the purpose of making future soldiers... and all male characters should be partaking in the available females, or brutally assaulting and raping those that they desire but aren't 'available'?

Wouldn't that just promote MORE public cybering and an extremely violent environment? Isn't stuff like that against the TOS to begin with?

I thought that's what Age of Conan promoted and allowed by being an "adults only" game.

[Irithel]

*waves a little flag that says Izrail on it*

[Izrail]

The lore-based discussion was relocated to the Lore forum. Check it out.

[Aphraelle]

My $0.02:

I actually think it's a little disingenuous to say there's "no line" between ERP and other RP. I think there is a line: it's the same line that separates (or "separated," I guess) the former Adult section from the regular forums. I think the transition across the line is what should be - and is, if you're good at it - seamless. But the line remains, to my mind, and I think it's important to have language that can specify which side of the line you're talking about.

It's erotic, or supposed to be, and it's roleplay, so what the hell else do you want me to call it?

I also notice that frequently people just RPing have no concern with whether a character belongs to a player of the character's gender (most especially, whether a female character is played by a male or a female), but suddenly it's OH SO IMPORTANT that a female be played by a female when it's ERP time. If it was really just about the RP, then people wouldn't care. But very often it isn't just about the RP.

Personally, I've done it a very few times, might possibly do it again, I don't know. The circumstances would have to be just so, by which I mean: after OOC discussion with the other party, certainty that the other person is not a legal minor, and so on.

I've been put off the whole concept by a couple of things, particularly The Paladin Who Shall Remain Nameless that Aphraelle was involved with. I couldn't be logged on for more than five minutes without this idiot showing up at Aphraelle's side and suggesting that we "go somewhere private," and getting whiny if I said no, Aphraelle needs to level or BG or whatnot. (Before you ask, no, we never "did it." :D)

On a snarky note, if I was going to, I don't know that wandering around Eversong Woods stepping over used kleenexes and dead trolls in a baggie would be the most conducive environment. There are days I think Silvermoon should take a lesson from gay men and just open a damn steambaths already.

I also react badly to the statements I've occasionally received that I'm somehow less of an RPer because I haven't "gone there" with Aphraelle. Firstly, as her character background story indicates, her only real experience of "sexuality" is an attempted rape by her father followed by his protracted death at the hands of his own succubus. Not exactly Harlequin Romance material. Secondly, newsflash: not everyone wants to have sex in the real world, and of those that do, not everyone gets the opportunity, for whatever reason, be it looks or emotional issues or what-have-you.

Aphraelle will probably lose her V-card at some point, but it will need to be for a reason, in a story arc. Not some bullshit start-off line like, "Hi, let's go somewhere and get to know each other better." Wow, obvious much? I'd really hate to think that that works on real women. Please remember that the most common sexual dysfunction is being boring. :p

[Yichimet]

Wise man say: cow sex just not that appealing.

[Ellsbeth]

I also notice that frequently people just RPing have no concern with whether a character belongs to a player of the character's gender (most especially, whether a female character is played by a male or a female), but suddenly it's OH SO IMPORTANT that a female be played by a female when it's ERP time. If it was really just about the RP, then people wouldn't care. But very often it isn't just about the RP.

I like your 2 cents. I've come across this too.

[Skafloc]

On a snarky note, if I was going to, I don't know that wandering around Eversong Woods stepping over used kleenexes and dead trolls in a baggie would be the most conducive environment. There are days I think Silvermoon should take a lesson from gay men and just open a damn steambaths already.



This paragraph is hilarious for its accuracy I think. :D

[Akula]

/facepalm

Okkaaayyyy~ I don't have much to say seeing as most of what I would have wanted to say has already been said in possibly 94562340723076 different posts by now.

Fade-to-Black: It's awsome when both characters are on the same OOC lvl of 'it's 2am I need sleep', "Yea I agree, sleepy time, lets just say they did their dirty and woke up disgruntled from the booze". Or for some other OOC agreement that niether party thought that any particular happened other then them having mad passionate lusty filled sex.

In my personal opinion the foreplay is better then the actual deed, hell, the entire thing could be foreplay! Thats fine with me!

ERP: Whether it be that you're randy and hankering for some rough kinkified e-sex that you don't think you would ever get irl, go for it! If it actually goes along with your character's personality to be so lude, romantic, coy, or a pimp. Go for it. If you are one of the so few who ERP because they want to no break character, they go through with the r/p for r/p reasons and don't get off, go. for. it. And if you're one of the majority who ERP for both the arousal factor, and the r/p purposes, w00t for you.

As to the ORIGINAL question of the thread. ERP and RP Are two tottally different levels of rp. You can be good at both, suck at both, good at one and okay at the other.

To say that ERP exhibits more thought and a larger vocublary... well All I gotta say to that is;
'Who's e-peen is larger?'
'Who's brain is a larger dictionary?'

It's the same damn fucking 'who's better then who' game. Really now guys? It's all a matter of opinion, no matter how much we write on the subject, all it will do is broaden points of views, and narrow others. But changing someone's mind in these forumns is damn near immpossible.

[Akula]

I also notice that frequently people just RPing have no concern with whether a character belongs to a player of the character's gender (most especially, whether a female character is played by a male or a female), but suddenly it's OH SO IMPORTANT that a female be played by a female when it's ERP time. If it was really just about the RP, then people wouldn't care. But very often it isn't just about the RP.


As for this... well I am one of the naive people who assume the gender the character is is the gender of the mind controlling the character. Not because of sexual satisfaction to make sure if Akula were to hit on them (LAWL), they are the correct gender inside and out. I like my way of thinking merely because I treat their character exactly how they should be treated when it comes to gender roles.

Trust me, if you wanna make sure people think you really are a guy behind that massive Orc face and not some drop dead gorgeouse babe who owns half of a coorperate company. I will be the last one to know your gender.

*Was just informed that many people she thought were actually guys are actually girls and visa versa* OH WOE IS ME! I HAD NO IDEA! D:

But even so, still make no damn difference, in the back of my mind you will ALWAYS be the gender I originally thought you were. <3

[The_Golden_Wolf]

My $0.02:

I also notice that frequently people just RPing have no concern with whether a character belongs to a player of the character's gender (most especially, whether a female character is played by a male or a female), but suddenly it's OH SO IMPORTANT that a female be played by a female when it's ERP time. If it was really just about the RP, then people wouldn't care. But very often it isn't just about the RP.




As for this... well I am one of the naive people who assume the gender the character is is the gender of the mind controlling the character. Not because of sexual satisfaction to make sure if Akula were to hit on them (LAWL), they are the correct gender inside and out. I like my way of thinking merely because I treat their character exactly how they should be treated when it comes to gender roles.
<3

You make a GREAT point Aph!

/raises hand

I have three male characters and one female. I Rp ALL of them. I am not the only one here of course to do cross gender roleplay, it is VERY common on TN.

At first I was surprised and started the infamous "gay belf male" thread that lived for 9 some odd pages. I got over it quickly once it was explained to me, and then skipped off and created my own male. After thoroughly enjoying my first, I created others. Two of them are het, and one is... well I have no clue. Haven't gotten that far.

So chances are the person you are E/RPing with is not the gender of that character. Major props for those of you who can play a convincing male/female if you are opposite gender.

[Villayna]

Thread title changed. The debate is fine, I'm just tired of seeing ERP on the front page of the forums.

[Soa]

I edited back in 2 of 3 sections of my progression from dinner to steam and steam to romance. (rp dinner, leading from kissing to desire, then edited out desire to lust.)

Fade to black COULD work in my example (located on page 4 on my wall of text and examples) but likely? No. It's just more fun to do it all out. Every detail counts for me and every word I read I take in and study and match it to others. ERP is something I enjoy doing when I do it and I always try to expand my style. Normal Rp is very easy to expand style, you're not restricted to anything specific and so you're more able to use different words and descriptions and won't be nearly as boring, not to mention the amount of dialogue that that is included into it.

[Tirralys]

Fact: Around 80&#37; of female characters are played by men. (well, maybe not a fact, but it is a nice round number eh?) Hell, people who portray themselves as females here may very well be males on the other end (not counting those who have shown proof).

Fact: There's nothing wrong with that.

Personally, the majority of all my characters in all servers are male. Because I am male. I am not very good at Role Playing the opposite gender, because I lack higher brain function. I do, however, have a few, because they just look cooler (such as, my Dwarf Warrior is a Pella rip off, and Ishgaana my hunter is female, because she looks cooler then male troll hunters, imo.)

Thusly, I prefer most of my RP to be completely anonymous to the opposite's actual player behind the computer. Why? Because it changes how I interact with them. I don't mean for it to, but it does. When I'm on Tirralys, he was almost about to marry Ninorra (barring the fact that I decided to quit WoW) and that was all well and good. But then, what would have happened if I found out Ninorra was actually a guy? Would I stop making advances on her character-to-character? Probably. Would I talk to Ninorra differently on Tirralys? I probably would.

I know it seems shallow, but I know I have this problem. And so, I never ask if the person behind the screen is the sex they proclaim to be in character - I just roll with it. I forget there is a person behind the screen, and just do character-to-character interaction as much as possible.

Maybe it ends up being two guys ERPing? I don't know, because I don't focus on that. Chances are also that it could be two females ERPing together (and both are playing gay men, or one is playing male and the other female) or a man and a woman erping together.

It just does not matter to me. As the saying goes - ignorance is bliss, and sometimes it really does help overall when it comes to RP (not only ERP) because I know my attitude in character changes willingly or not, when I find out who the person behind the screen really is.

[Naheal]

Fact: Around 80% of female characters are played by men. (well, maybe not a fact, but it is a nice round number eh?) Hell, people who portray themselves as females here may very well be males on the other end (not counting those who have shown proof).

Fact: 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot

[Akula]

Fact: 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot


/giggle

[Alphaeus]

I don't think there are 'higher forms' of writing. There are different styles of writing. Everyone has their own tastes, and what they enjoy. I like to sit down and read content-filled paragraphs, to learn more about people's characters. Their actions, expressions, thoughts, emotions - I want to see all of that when I RP with someone.

Other people just want a /nod. To each their own.

As for the issue of ERP vs Cyber, I have a personal set of definitions regarding that:

'E'RP - RP with an erotic theme or twist. Not always sexual in nature, sometimes simply deviant from the 'norm' (sado/maso, subservience, psychological power games, etc) Level of explicitness varies. Written in third person with no use of 'you'.

Cyber: "Hey, baby, what're you wearin'? Mmmn, that's nice... hey, let's get that webcam on... Oh, you're a real hottie... Take your shirt off baby. Nice. Mn, here's a shot of my cock, you like that, slut?" Written in 1st or 3rd person with ample use of 'you'.

I think the only reason the issue is a big deal at all is due to the social taboos that have fallen into place over centuries of influence from certain cultures and religions. The established taboo in effect leads to negative connotations with the topic - sex - in any setting. Thus, because it's 'bad', people who are younger do it, often as an act of rebellion against parental or adult authority. This leads to the apparent prevalence of badly written sexual content. Because the youthful group who feel that 'doing it' is an act of rebellion are often loudly vocal, it shapes the face of what so many people recognize as 'sexual rp'. This vocal group leads people who are unfamiliar with the concept of RP to form negative opinions and thoughts on the topic based on what stands out the most to them.

What happens between someone else's sheets, as long as both people are legal adults, is none of anyone else's business - unless they're in there with 'em.

RP with adult, sexual, or deviant content is not automatically better or worse than any other RP out there. RP with non-adult content is not automatically better or worse than any other RP out there.

[Tirralys]

Fact: 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot

If you can't laugh at yourself...

It's true, and I'm guilty. But I do think the number was pretty high like that. I know Second Life had a greater percentage of women playing women, but as for the exact statistics..I'd have to look that up. And I'm too lazy.

[LorFedorovic]

I also notice that frequently people just RPing have no concern with whether a character belongs to a player of the character's gender (most especially, whether a female character is played by a male or a female), but suddenly it's OH SO IMPORTANT that a female be played by a female when it's ERP time. If it was really just about the RP, then people wouldn't care. But very often it isn't just about the RP.
I've noticed... personally I don't care. I mean, I play both male and female characters, and I realize that as a female there's some parts of men I won't understand (though I try to research up), but if it's good RP it's good RP. I have been asked though many times what gender I was and on one occasion my male Belf was just left standing there, his story cut short, after the other party decided they were too weirded out by that. I wasn't even thinking it was going to lead to ERP at that point either, and probably would have turned her down as that Belf is in love with someone else... but she didn't even want to talk to me after that. @ o ERP or no.

I'm... not sure if that helps of hurts your point... but I have a feeling she was just looking for ERP in the end and she had been RPing with him just fine up until that point. *shrugs*



I've been put off the whole concept by a couple of things, particularly The Paladin Who Shall Remain Nameless that Aphraelle was involved with. I couldn't be logged on for more than five minutes without this idiot showing up at Aphraelle's side and suggesting that we "go somewhere private," and getting whiny if I said no, Aphraelle needs to level or BG or whatnot. (Before you ask, no, we never "did it." :D)
Guh, I've run into those. Some ERPers really do need to take a chill pill.


But even so, still make no damn difference, in the back of my mind you will ALWAYS be the gender I originally thought you were. <3
<3 I love it when I'm mistaken as the gender of my character. It means I'm doing good at pretending I'm them. I try hard to think like my character for a bit (not to the extent that ledger did, but enough to know what I'd do if i was my character), so it's a big compliment when people think I'm actually a man.

There have been a few men I've run into, however, that I thought "I bet that's a guy playing that chick" or "Hmm... that's probably a woman."

[Jeedup]

This actually, has been a real interesting read, but I'm not swayed in my view that "ERP=Cyber".

Now now, before you get into a huffy, I didn't say "Cyber" ment "You're a dirty little slut now ain't ya?".

Its just a term deal with it. Seriously.

ERP, yes, as its been discussed here by a multitude of people, can be from emotes well written about ones state of emotions towards anothe character, to getting giggity in the dark hallways of Silvermoon. If 'sexual' emotions/actions, are displayed, I just call it cyber. Now, granted, I don't honestly care what you do with your character, if you flaunt it around like a piece of meat, make it well know that your character (and in extension, you), enjoy ERP rather frequently, people are going to unfortunatly make unbiased opinions about that character/player, and I can see why people get defensive about the use of the word "Cyber".

I have seen some nice erotica written here, and I've witnessed very subtle 'erp' in public places in Silvermoon and other areas. Yes, I giggle, who wouldn't, but it isnt that big a deal, atleast I believe.

And about that '80&#37; of female characters are played by men', well thats most likely part true, but guess what, 80% of male characters are played by woman.

GASP!

It happens. After all, this is role play, right? Why is it so odd to think one gender wouldnt want to play another? I don't mean getting all dressed up in gaurders and stockings, unless hey, thats what tickles yer pickle. But I've gotten over my inital shocked reactions from years pasts of hearing "That guys actually a girl!", it just loses its shock value.

And hey, guess what, those opposite playing genders sometimes even make themselves homosexuals!

GASP AGAIN!

Again, not shocking. But I see (on both sides, not pointing fingers), one side often throwing stones at another, saying they're the perverted ones trying to just get their jollies off. But hey, down to the meat and potatoes of it, isn't that the damned point?

Sorry, had to rant. I really am intrigued by this discussion

Quick, Izrial, say something smart.

[Izrail]

Quick, Izrial, say something smart.

*Izrail.

[Jeedup]

*Izrail.

Totally deliberate <.<

[Izrail]

Locked this because every view has been represented.