Resto Shaman in Wrath?

[Chikt]

One of my rules when reading stuff about new expansions or expansions is that hearing nothing means that it's actually a good thing, but nothing worth writing home about. Well, I've heard plenty of raving about how good Elemental is going to be in PvP in Wrath, but I've heard nothing about Resto. I was Resto specced for 90% of my time at 70 for PvP and I really do enjoy it, and I was quite disappointed to see the direction Resto was taking in Wrath.

Well, doing more reading up on the talents we've got I can see how they can be useful for PvP and how Resto Shaman could in fact be useful in PvP still. After all my PvP as Resto spec tonight it got me to thinking about how much I enjoyed Resto when other people were around to actually heal, and why I chose to be Elemental - to be able to do stuff on my own while other people weren't around.

I still see no use in Tidal Waves and Riptide as PvP talents, despite how Riptide may be an instant cast heal - it's an instant cast heal for very little damage that is dependent upon Chain Heal to get the full effect out of it. Chain Heal is just generally BAD for PvP because of the fact that it IS a raid group heal and so I could see a Resto PvP spec in Wrath generally avoiding those talents.

Having become hooked on Toughness after trying it out in Arenas with Yatokth tonight (Haha! Screw you rogues! Eat through all that armor quickly now!) I was looking at a spec like this (0/22/49) (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?shaman=000000000000000000000000500320311550135511 200312000052523000050000000000000000) for Wrath. Emphasis on self-survival and a whole SHITTONNE of crit to get plenty of Ancestral Awakening and Ancestral Healing procs (not that I don't crit enough as is, even WITHOUT all the crit talents. I'm looking at 14% extra crit with this spec, which at level 70 with my current gear would ammount to 31% chance to crit) I think it actually looks like a really viable PvP spec.

Whether it's good or not, however, is a different matter. I'm still torn between Elemental and Resto PvP simply because it's that feeling of the challenge being blowing up the other person before they blow you up, or being the unmoving rock in the steam of attacks. Both possibilities are really attractive to me, but I'm torn.

Not that it is going to matter much, hopefully Blizzard will get out the patch with Duel Speccing BEFORE I hit 80 and it's really important.

[Advurb]

I've been putting up with Cowdeo rants for weeks, but frankly I agree with him.

Removing Spirit Link was a horrible idea. There really was no reason for it.

[Chikt]

I've been putting up with Cowdeo rants for weeks, but frankly I agree with him.

Removing Spirit Link was a horrible idea. There really was no reason for it.

Don't get me started on the Spirit Link thing, that pissed me off. They put it in the game and said "So here's this awesome new talent that both PvE and PvP specced shaman will love" and when it turned out to be OP, rather than simply nerfing it, they removed it altogether with a talent that just screams "im 4 teh rayding!11 :D"

[Advurb]

It wasn't really even that OP.. as a whole shamans would have been just viable with it, not overpowered. Now they just suck..

[NotMaithanet]

Don't get me started on the Spirit Link thing, that pissed me off. They put it in the game and said "So here's this awesome new talent that both PvE and PvP specced shaman will love" and when it turned out to be OP, rather than simply nerfing it, they removed it altogether with a talent that just screams "im 4 teh rayding!11 :D"

The solution then, is simple.

Dumbass Aussie.

[Yatokth]

The solution then, is simple.

Dumbass Aussie.

PvP > Raiding

Especially because me and him rape face. :P

Either way you go, Dio, it oughta be fun. Like I said, try some similar specs out patch day when we arena and see what you like.

[Advurb]

The solution then, is simple.

Dumbass Aussie.

Gameplay requiring strategy, quick thinking and skill > Fighting internet dragons

[Kaliera]

Gameplay requiring strategy, quick thinking and skill

Tell that to Ret Paladins. :]

[Advurb]

touche

[Tillna]

Personally, I saw a few resto shammies not dieing in PVP.

I alsmot feel that shammies are a more pvp class now, then before..

But I got a PVP vibe from Resto

[Fhenrir]

I'm personally curious where resto shamans will find their niche in PvP without windfury being the token melee-train staple it is now.

[Yatokth]

I'm personally curious where resto shamans will find their niche in PvP without windfury being the token melee-train staple it is now.

New Windfury stacks with Bloodlust for 50% increased attack speed.

Still awesome.

[Leoren]

Why not play around with both Dio? You should be able to use the same homogenized gear for both resto healing and elemental DPS ( maybe having to swap one or two pieces for crit vs. MP5? ) and all while having TWO specs which you'll be able to swap in and out of out in the world without having to return to your class trainer.

Hybrids have never had it so good in WoW come Wrath, why not make the most of it? Group situation where heals are needed? You're good to go. Too many healers or out solo wanting to lay some smack down? Instant presto, you're ready to rock. I think we'll be seeing a major shift away from hybrids seeing themselves limited to only one of their class' identities with the instant free spec swaps.

[Yatokth]

Why not play around with both Dio? You should be able to use the same homogenized gear for both resto healing and elemental DPS ( maybe having to swap one or two pieces for crit vs. MP5? ) and all while having TWO specs which you'll be able to swap in and out of out in the world without having to return to your class trainer.

Hybrids have never had it so good in WoW come Wrath, why not make the most of it? Group situation where heals are needed? You're good to go. Too many healers or out solo wanting to lay some smack down? Instant presto, you're ready to rock. I think we'll be seeing a major shift away from hybrids seeing themselves limited to only one of their class' identities with the instant free spec swaps.

Talking to him before - this was pretty much his plan.

It just remains to be seen what will be most effective in arena in both 2s and 3s (since me and dio are 2s-ing, and we're all 3s-ing, we don't know if resto or ele will be more powerful. On the one hand, Elemental will add to our extreme burst, but Resto will be really hard to kill on the other, and he'll be the first target more than likely either way.)

[Chikt]

BEEG POAST TIEM


I'm personally curious where resto shamans will find their niche in PvP without windfury being the token melee-train staple it is now.

As Yatokth pointed out, Windfury Totem DOES stack with Bloodlust, and without talents it still comes to 46% increased melee haste - nothing to sneeze at when you consider the fact that Windfury was all about procs before. It's not burst anymore, no, but that flat increase to haste is pretty friggin crazy. Also notice that not much has been said about Windfury Totem since the big change to it. Usually this is a good sign.

However, I think that Resto Shaman actually more than make up for it in their newfound utility. Just going by my Resto PvP spec and ignoring the top tier talents. We're still THE plate healer (Ancestral Healing), we can now remove curses (Cleanse Spirit), we get a HoT (Blessing of the Eternals), healing aid (Ancestral Awakening) are even HARDER to kill (Imp. Earth Shield and Imp. Shields), and have critical rating (not to mention the abilities triggered by them) out the friggin gazoo (Up to a possible 14% from 3 different talents in two trees quite easily).

That isn't to say that I think Resto is the best spec for PvP. Elemental just has that many more great PvP talents that Resto just lacks, PARTICULARLY with the loss of the old Windfury. At the same time, I suspect PvP healers are going to be few and far between... and I enjoy it when people say to me that I'm a bitch to kill.


Why not play around with both Dio? You should be able to use the same homogenized gear for both resto healing and elemental DPS ( maybe having to swap one or two pieces for crit vs. MP5? ) and all while having TWO specs which you'll be able to swap in and out of out in the world without having to return to your class trainer.

Hybrids have never had it so good in WoW come Wrath, why not make the most of it? Group situation where heals are needed? You're good to go. Too many healers or out solo wanting to lay some smack down? Instant presto, you're ready to rock. I think we'll be seeing a major shift away from hybrids seeing themselves limited to only one of their class' identities with the instant free spec swaps.


Talking to him before - this was pretty much his plan.

It just remains to be seen what will be most effective in arena in both 2s and 3s (since me and dio are 2s-ing, and we're all 3s-ing, we don't know if resto or ele will be more powerful. On the one hand, Elemental will add to our extreme burst, but Resto will be really hard to kill on the other, and he'll be the first target more than likely either way.)

I've definitely decided that, come dual-speccing, I'll be going Ele PvP / Resto PvP, there's no doubt about that in my mind. Most likely I'll be leveling Elemental. And I'll be trying out both before the expansion is released.

In a lot of ways I'm leaning towards Resto? Largely because, as I say, I suspect dedicated PvP healers are going to be few and far between in Wrath But with the changes to Spell Damage and Healing (Get this) the only REAL difference between Elemental PvP sets (http://www.wowwiki.com/Brutal_Gladiator%27s_Thunderfist) and Restoration PvP sets (http://www.wowwiki.com/Brutal_Gladiator%27s_Wartide) is the set bonus on them. There are minimal differences between them in the way of stats (the resto set generally has more +Int and will have less Spellpower) but they are otherwise exactly the same. This means I could pick up EITHER set (I'm thinking 4 pieces of the resto set would probably be better - lower spell power but higher +Int and as a result more longevity, as well as the grounding totem, every other piece elemental). But then, this is all going on the assumption that PvP sets in Wrath will be largely the same as they are in S4.

The thing about Shaman is that Elemental and Resto use the same stats for PvP (Crit, Int, Stam, Resilience and Spellpower). The BIG differences between them are with raiding gear (More Crit and Spellpower vs more Int and more Mp5). So I will be very surprised if the Elemental vs Resto PvP gear at 80 is all that different from the sets at 70.

I was shocked when I went to look at the Elemental Pants (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35051) I wanted to buy, and saw the EXACT SAME STATS on the Restoration pants (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35080) (except for the obvious difference of +Healing vs +Spell Damage). No joke. Look for yourself.

[Taknar]

Just want to combat some of the ignorance spreading about Spirit Link. See Koraa's comments posted here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=8202381435&postId=100422137771&sid=2000#37


Spirit Link was creating too many technical issues, such as:

- Tech wise it was causing many bugs, for example there is no way for us to let you refresh it on the current target who has spirit link (which is what spurred the duration/cooldown)
- Allowing linked targets to break out of CC when you shared damage was too powerful, and the gimmicks we put on it were confusing and bad design
- Allowing you to put it on a tank was too powerful, so we had to address that too. Which was a downer.

In an upcoming build we're replacing Spirit Link with a new talent. It will be an instant cast beefy heal over time called Riptide on a short cooldown. It also has a cool side effect of when you Chain Heal that target it will consume the HoT, and increase the healing done by that Chain Heal.

They started off with a really cool ability, but with the bugs it was causing they had two choices. First was to fix the bugs and nerf it, and I think it would be foolish to assume that they didn't try it. But adding all the restrictions onto an eligant ability like this made it too complex and un-wieldy, not to mention they couldn't get the bugs right. So they moved to the second option, removal. However, I will bet anyone 20 gold that they will go back to work on the code to see if they can get it working for the next expansion.

In the meantime, I also feel you're being unfair to Riptide. Saying that an ability is raid only because it has bonuses tied to a raid ability is like saying that Chain Lightning is useless without 3 targets because it doesn't get its full effect; it's still higher DPS than Lightning Bolt and you'd be foolish not to put it into a rotation.

[Chikt]

In the meantime, I also feel you're being unfair to Riptide. Saying that an ability is raid only because it has bonuses tied to a raid ability is like saying that Chain Lightning is useless without 3 targets because it doesn't get its full effect; it's still higher DPS than Lightning Bolt and you'd be foolish not to put it into a rotation.

Any good Resto PvP shaman can tell you that Chain Heal is not part of their "healing rotation" in PvP (If you can say one even exists) NOT because of a lack of targets but because said targets are most often spread out and not clustered together like they are in a Raid. It's highly mana inefficient (for PvP) and on a long cast time, so no matter WHAT sort of abilities they give to it, it's not going to make up a part of a good PvP tree.

Even Healing Wave isn't used often in PvP BECAUSE it's such a long cast, only in situations where you're not being focussed (read: once in a blue moon) are you able to use it in PvP.

Trust me mate, I've been Resto PvP for a LONG time and read up PLENTY on healing in PvP, and I never use Chain Heal in world PvP either (it's so ineffective against healing reduction it's crazy). PvP healing is all about burst healing like it is about burst DPS, and chain heal is not that.

[Taknar]

...my whole point was that the instant cast heal is still worth it, not that chain heal is a good PvP heal. I was just saying don't discount the ability because 100% of it isn't geared towards PvP just like you don't discount Chain Lightning on single target DPS fights just because it's not 100% gear towards single target.

Perhaps a better example would be (these are hard to come up with btw =P).... I got nothing. Instant heals are good damnit!

[Chikt]

Perhaps a better example would be (these are hard to come up with btw =P).... I got nothing. Instant heals are good damnit!

The heal is still minimal, and the points are better spent in the Enhancement tree as far as PvP is concerned.